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Never before have there been so many new ways to earn an income & find the job that’s right for you. Learn about them & how to get them including how to overcome ageism.

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How to stay Employed or Find a Job for Older Workers

How to stay Employed or Find a Job for Older Workers may not be as challenging as you think.

Here is help and insight for those of you facing challenges such as ageism, changing workplaces, and the changing job market.

Whether you are trying to find a job, keep your job, advance your career or change careers, Dr. Gillian Leithman has information and perspective you need to hear and Launch Yourself to a New Way Forward.

Dr. Gillian Leithman is the founder and facilitator of Rewire to Retire which helps people navigate the transition from work to retirement. She is a professor at Concordia University in Montreal, Canada, and her research focus includes aging workers, retirement, well-being and knowledge management. She is a sought-after speaker, seminar facilitator, consultant and soon-to-be author with a major book coming soon addressing the changing needs, challenges and opportunities for and businesses.

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Podcast Treatment: How to stay Employed or Find a Job for Older Workers

Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:00:00] Many of us have just bought into this notion that we’re too old. It’s such a great thing to question your assumptions because when we don’t question them, we get stuck in really old old modes of thinking. One of the things that will make you attractive to your employer is that you’re not only interested in saying, but you’re interested in mentoring and teaching the next generation,


Helping you find your new way forward to the best years of your life. This is a new way forward podcast with your host, Paul Long.


Paul Long: [00:00:22] If you’re older and you need to find another job or you feel like you might need to find another job or keep your job or pivot your career or whatever. For anybody that requires some out of the box thinking, if you’re older, maybe even more so and it’s so much thinking out of the box, it’s getting out of your old box and it’s getting out of your assumptions and presumptions and thinking differently. And to help you do that, it’s my guest today, Dr. Gillian Latham. Now, Jill Jill’s just brilliant. She’s been a professor at Concordia University in Montreal. She studied this whole situation. She’s the founder and facilitator for Rewire to Retire. She is a highly desired speaker presenter. She’s done research. I could go on and on. Let’s meet her for yourself because she will help give you the foundation and the direction to go to get into the new box to help you make sure that the years ahead are some of, if not the best.


Paul Long: [00:01:30] Let’s say I believe that I have those skills that I believe that I have something to offer. Nevertheless, you do hear a lot about a lot of people saying that start getting over tones, I start I hear about other people that have basically been saying, Oh hey, you know, time to go. What should employees be doing to help assure that there’s a place for them and that their leadership, their HR partners recognize that?


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:02:00] Again, I would, because it’s a it’s a it’s a bizarre thing. We’re not speaking about it. It’s really this weird thing that we don’t talk about. And I would say, make sure that your organization knows that you’re interested in staying. And one of the things that will make you attractive to your employer is that you’re not only interested in staying, but you’re interested in mentoring and teaching the next generation or the up and comers or the people that are going to assume your role. So that makes you very attractive from the perspective of retention. I want to keep you, especially if you do have what to contribute to the organization and you are interested in sharing your knowledge. So have those conversations because for some reason, they’re just not happening, and I would take it upon myself to initiate know you need to become proactive today. All of us do. It’s not just boomers, but really be proactive about this next stage and show that you talk about it, that you want to stay on. You want to remain connected, you want to. You want to either continue working in the same capacity or you might want to conceptualize working in a different way. What does that look like to you? Do you want to work three days? Do you want to work on special projects? Have some idea of what you want going forward prior to actually having these conversations with HR because you can actually come to them with a plan if they don’t have one for their, I should say retirees or not retirees for their older workers. Sometimes organizations will have a phased retirement plan. Oftentimes they won’t, because it’s relatively new. So think about what it is that you want moving forward. What kind of employment contract do you want to have with your organization now?


Paul Long: [00:03:44] Go into phase retirement because that strikes me as being a new trend and probably one that’s still evolving. But in principle, what is it and what’s the best path forward for the employee?


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:03:57] So I think phased retirement is just a phenomenal way to move into this next stage of development. If you’re thinking about retirement and your ambivalence, let’s say about it, you’re not so sure. Do I want to stay or do I want to go? I still have a lot to contribute, but maybe they want me to leave. Phase retirement allows you to cut back on work in different capacities, so you might choose to cut back on your responsibilities and work three days a week. You might choose to just work on special projects if it’s feasible it. It obviously depends upon what type of work you do. So it’s really think of it as scaling back. It might even involve working from home several days a week as opposed to working five days from the office. So it’s just reorganizing your work week and it’s a reduced workweek. Or, as I said, it could just be it could be reduced workload. You might be working on projects that really excite you and not all projects. So you’re phasing into retirement, you’re leaving. It’s a bridge almost between full time, full time work and part time work. Right, you’re bridging it. And instead of going instead of looking at this arena as very black and white, should I stay? Should I go? You could stay just in a different capacity and get the opportunity to kind of put your toes in the water about this whole retirement thing?


Paul Long: [00:05:14] I know in another conversation that we had, you were talking about maybe training and learning things don’t get offered to you anymore because there’s an assumption that, well, you’ve got one foot out the door.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:05:28] Yes, that’s a great point. So there’s there. It’s this, it’s almost this loop that happens, right? So if I’m a HR and I think that you’re on your way out, then the natural assumption would be you don’t want to invest in your career because what you’re not going to go to conference, learn your skills and come back and apply them or take a course or do a program if you’re thinking if if you’re getting ready to retire. So H.R. won’t offer you training and development opportunities and professional opportunities to advance your career because the assumption is you don’t, you don’t want to. And for whatever reason, mature workers don’t approach, don’t approach it and say, I really am interested in furthering my career. And so nothing happens. We don’t offer our older workers the opportunities to advance, and they are not asking us for that opportunity. So it comes back to let’s have this conversation. Tell them your interest to take the initiative, be proactive. And I would even go as far as to say, Paul, if your organization is not interested in investing. In your professional development, I think it’s worth you investing in your professional development. Yes. Meaning maybe you need to foot the bill to upskill. Maybe you need to pay for that conference that you really want to go to, that your employer says, Well, we’re just not going to invest in it just because you need to be proactive at this stage if you want to remain at work. You need to sell yourself to either your current employer or a potential employer.


Paul Long: [00:07:04] That’s a that’s a very good point, and to be effective, we all need to keep learning to be healthy, to live and live longer. We need to keep learning, which is more expensive than just training. And so the question I’m coming up to is that what might some of those things be in that I can imagine some of my clients, for instance, in my other business thinking it’s changed processes. It’s it’s these technical things how to operate a certain new kind of CRM software or something like that. But this is other things, including for lack of a better term soft skills as well, that’s worth learning to enhance yourself and your how attractive you are as an employee.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:07:52] I think we all need to learn. Obviously, I clearly I’m biased, I teach job skills, right? So I think we all it is too. It’s only to our advantage to learn how to use these these people skills, right, how to be effective, how to be influential, how to teach. Because just because you have a lot of experience doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to be a good mentor. Right. So it behooves us to actually figure out how to do this. How do I what would be the best and most effective way to transfer my knowledge? If you’re if, if you struggle with your moods and your emotions, you might want to take a course on emotional intelligence. Right? How do how do I how do I navigate through transitional times? How do I navigate? You know, how do I keep my emotions in check? Things of that nature? So certainly the soft skills part which the advantage that older workers often have obviously speaking in gross generalities, but older workers often, I guess by trial and error, they have figured out the soft skill thing that they tend to have better or higher. I should say emotional intelligence, better communication skills than their younger counterparts, which make them incredibly attractive to potential employers or their current employer. I would say tech technology is one of those things that you really need to be up to date on, because we really most of us in the knowledge and doing knowledge work, we are working with different technologies and we need to we need to be up to date on that. It’s not just for younger workers. If you want to remain attractive, make sure that you’re up to date on the latest technologies in your field.


Paul Long: [00:09:32] And I would also think that I know in my own case some things that I think I’m I even have a good track record at doing. I notice that sometimes when even if it’s listening to somebody like you, I realize, you know what, maybe I need to refresh those skills. Maybe I need to clean out some bad habits, and I’ve been going on an assumption that I’ve got this baby nailed, which I might not anymore.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:09:56] You know, the beauty of that and questioning our assumptions, which is just that everything we’re talking about, right? We’re questioning these assumptions. Like, should I? Am I crazy to contemplate working beyond sixty five? It’s such a great thing to question your assumptions because when we don’t question them, we get stuck in really old old modes of thinking right? And we also want to be looking if we’re we tend to have the same thoughts. Think the same thing over and over again. If you’re thinking, you know, am I crazy to work beyond the age of sixty five, then you’re not even contemplating the possible options of what this next phase might look like. So questioning the assumptions, I think it’s something we should all be doing throughout our life. Am I seeing clearly? Is there something where is my blind spot, right? What am I not seeing an end? I would say also go out and look for people role models who are doing this. There are people that are working beyond the age of sixty five. They’re having fun, they’re doing it. They’re at the height of their career. So you there are people that do model these things for us. Don’t just look at the people who have exited and think to yourself, Well, everybody’s retiring. No, it’s just you’re looking at the people who are retiring, but there’s a whole segment that that isn’t. So I think questioning your assumptions is just a great thing to do at any age.


Paul Long: [00:11:12] You told me that some of the most ajuste people out there. So this applies to our whole audience, some of the most ages, people out there are people of age. They’re Baby Boomers themselves themselves who are ages. Elaborate on that.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:11:27] Yeah. So we we don’t wouldn’t conceive of ourselves like that. But we tend to a lot of us tend to internalize these messages that the greater culture has, for lack of better words has put out there, right? It’s the media. It’s it’s it’s we have it’s a societal messages that we get that even though sixty five, even though we’re living so much longer, we’re living so much healthier. And we really there’s there’s we really can work for for a longer time. Many of us have just bought into this notion that we’re too old and we don’t realize we’ve done it. But that’s where your initial question comes from, right? Am I crazy to be contemplating working beyond the age of sixty five? Well, that’s because you may have internalized this belief that you’re too old to remain at work and without even recognizing it. We ourselves, you know, it’s called internalized ageism. We fall prey to these false assumptions that maybe, maybe there was a time where that was accurate, but those those assumptions, those beliefs do not hold today. And so again, question where does that come from? Sixty five comes from way back when when we instituted Social Security, it all started in Germany. The Canada and the states followed suit with sixty five, but it was chosen as a no. It was an arbitrary. It was chosen because most people were not anticipated to live beyond the age of sixty five, so the state would not have to pay out a pension. Right. Well, today, longevity, you know, you can anticipate living to seventy eight to 80 and beyond. That’s just average numbers, right? Average lifespan doesn’t mirror doesn’t reflect our abilities in the twenty first century.


Paul Long: [00:13:16] Right. And it’s not just the lifespan, but it’s the health span because it’s not growing older and being infirm and being in a nursing home. And you’re right. I mean, now there are very people who are peaking in their lives and it’s happened throughout history, but especially happening now in their eighties. And as boomers broke down the barriers of business and growth and employment back in the sixties, it’s like reap the benefits of it and keep working, keep, keep contributing and such. And the thought also came into my mind when and I’ve heard and studied it too, about how sixty five came up back in nineteen thirty five when that was the average lifespan for the American male and take somebody from nineteen thirty five at age sixty five and put them in right now. And you’d probably think that you’re looking at someone who’s old and infirm, not the average sixty five year old or the average healthy sixty five year old


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:14:22] Today, right? Right. And it leads me to think about a story, an example that my PhD, one of my PhD supervisors with, would often speak about. She was Dolores Pushkar, heavy hitter in the field of aging. She would often say, take 10 babies, infants and line them up. And they’re pretty much all the same developmentally, you know, there’s very little there’ll be very little variation on the theme take ten sixty five year olds and line them up and you are going to have people that are walking with canes, maybe some that are in wheelchairs, some that may have dementia and others that are at the height of their game that are running marathons that are climbing mountains. So it’s not don’t age should not be taken as a barometer for your capabilities. It’s your life stage. It’s your health phase. How do you feel right? Age is this arbitrary? Don’t take ages the guiding post as to what you should be doing and where you should be at in life because it doesn’t fit today. There was a time where it fit. It made sense when we we went to school, we got jobs and we retired, but we don’t live like that anymore. We go to school for much longer. We take sabbaticals, we go to work, we exit work. We even if you are getting ready to leave the workforce, you might be thinking about starting your own business at sixty five. Right. So this I would say, going back to your previous question, you know, question your assumptions,


Paul Long: [00:15:55] You know, because these are self limiting beliefs as you usually characterize


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:15:59] Them, these are self limiting beliefs and in the worst way possible. If you start thinking, I’m not capable, I’m too old, that is going to reinforce what you choose to engage in the activities that you try, whether or not you’re even contemplating working beyond sixty five and it could become a downward spiral. Right. I’m too old to start cycling. I’m too old to play tennis, I’m too old to start a business and you are the one that’s going to be limiting your beliefs. So and you probably will search for evidence in the environment to support your beliefs so you’ll be listening to your entourage that says you should retire. You need to rest. You should be. This is your time. This is your period of this is this is your period where it’s all about you. This is why you worked your whole life. Well, maybe you want to continue working. So search for evidence to the contrary, who are the people in your world or in your community that are working beyond 65? Who are the people who are starting businesses? You know, we have a whole there’s a whole movement of sixty five year olds that are starting new businesses that happen to be more successful than their younger counterparts because of their experience. So I would say, question your beliefs and look for evidence. You know, look for people who are share, share the same mindset that sixty five is just just a number.


Paul Long: [00:17:21] In terms of start ups, boomers outpace millennials by two to one margin. You mentioned most of the ones that are done by boomers succeed, but with self-limiting beliefs. They’re very often self fulfilled prophecies. And I love what Henry Ford said. Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:17:42] Genius. Yeah, right. And so I just want to I want to just say mentioned, you know, that’s why it’s so important. Websites like Pro Boomer and movements of the like, it’s so important to surround yourself by people who think like you, because unfortunately, we have still we just we’re still very much an age of society know and we haven’t caught up to. The longevity revolution, the way we’re living, our culture, our cultural messages have just not caught up to our new realities, so hang out with people who are questioning these things who really think that these ideas are dated because they are the ones that are going to mirror back to these new values of you totally could do this. It’s feasible. Look at Jim. He’s climbing Everest at sixty five and look at Nancy. She’s she’s cycling at 60. She’s taking up this new hobby. So there are people doing this stuff. You don’t have to go at it alone. Seek out those role models because that will be very validating and also exciting for you to mirror. There are people doing these things. You become part of the movement.


Paul Long: [00:18:57] Well, and we are the average of the people that we hang out with. Absolutely no job hunters in terms of what can I do to overcome that ageless perspective, which so many people just automatically have? It’s a stereotype. It’s one hundred and eighty degrees from the truth. But what can I do in terms of making myself employable? Not just based on my skills and experience, which in some cases just isn’t enough if people perceive you as being older. Do I educate? Do I have to educate that hiring manager? Do I have to in my resume? In other ways that I put my fourth self? Fourth, educate? Deal with the elephant in the room. What do I do?


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:19:43] Yeah. Well, I would say act like educating. In other words, act tell people what you’re capable of. Tell people what you’ve done. You know, I would be looking for jobs with employers who we do have markings of employers who are who aren’t agents, employers that are 50 that are 50 that are age friendly. Look at the language that they’re actually using to advertise their job. Do they talk about diversity and inclusion? Do they show you images of the different generations? So you want to be looking for that because it’s going to be an easier you’re going to be an easier sell to the employers who recognize that age is an asset. And you also in your language, want to be talking about you’re a team player. You work with different generations. You like working with different generations. So you yourself also have to be cognizant of your language and what you bring to the table and which this is one that people do not like to. They just don’t like to contemplate. But the realities are such sometimes you really do need to shift your expectations and you might have to do an internship. You know, if you might have to prove to the employer that you do have what it takes to be part of their organization might be an unpaid internship, but get experience, especially if you’re transitioning into different industry.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:21:10] That’s not necessarily a bad thing. There are so many things that you could gain from being from, from being part of an organization, learning new things, learning different cultures. And I would say you need to be agile. What we would say today, emotionally agile, adaptive. You know, it might be this concept might be hurting your sense of pride. Try and put your ego aside. A paycheck is a paycheck as a paycheck. Money is green, right? And so what do you do? It might be a new learning curve. You might have to learn these new skills. And when you start out, you might have to do these things like take, take an internship, sit on boards, volunteer. In other words, expand your network, expand if you’re having difficulty finding a job, expand your network. We have a tendency of being very insular with our networks. Expand them in different. They really should be. They shouldn’t be insular. You should be looking to expand them and in different industries, different hanging out with different people, getting to know different people because they have access to different networks, different opportunities.


Paul Long: [00:22:18] So you brought up a couple of interesting points I want to dive back into. So first of all, let’s talk about internships, because that is that is intriguing. That is something that I’m sure a lot of people watching this, like I never even thought of that. Wait a minute. Are you kidding? I’m going to go get coffee for somebody, although most internships now are much more involved in that. I mean, how much of that is like the Robert De Niro movie, the intern in which he’s the older worker that comes into a fashion high tech start up and and has a great impact in fulfillment out of it?


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:22:51] I’m hearing more and more that, honestly, that the Robert De Niro is like, These do exist and I guess and what I love about that movie, and I really I really love that movie. What I love about it is just his attitude. This this this attitude of a desire to learn, a desire to be open. If we have this attitude that I know what all I need to know, you’re not going to learn, you’re not going to grow, and that’s not really attractive to anybody or certainly no employer, right? If you have this attitude that I’m willing that I want to expand my repertoire, that’s all it is. You want to expand. Think of yourself as an elastic, often tell people you just I’m not asking you to change yourself, but you want to expand who you are. Maybe try on a different persona, a new skill set. Have fun with it. We don’t have to be so serious about this, right? So if you approach it from if you could leave your ego aside and say, Hey, you know what? I don’t know much about this industry, but I’m willing to learn. Well, that’s an attractive quality in any potential employee.


Paul Long: [00:23:50] I was thinking, you know, that could really be a fun growth, interesting, invigorating experience doing something like that. Yeah. And who knows where it would lead the potential seems to be huge.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:24:07] And again, it comes back to what we were saying before is the self limiting beliefs. Well, I’m not going to do that or I know what I know or I’ve climbed so far in my career that I’m not going to go start at the bottom in another industry. Well. Certainly, if you’re going to approach it that way, it’s going to seem really unattractive, right? But if you could be playful with it and really think through, oh, the potential, what the possible we call them, possible selves. What else can I do? What else do I want to do? Try it on. You might not like it. You might love it. You might come into contact with new ideas and new ways of doing things that you never imagined. That is so invigorating. And then it’s so exciting that you want to come to work. You want to contribute. And for some of us, if you’re in a lucky position, then the paycheck, really, it’s not the number one motivating factor, but it’s actually being part of this really fun, stimulating environment that you want to contribute to and learn from and behind again.


Paul Long: [00:25:08] You never know where it leads. We have to remember, you know, I’ll put forth the fact as I tell my two 20 something sons, you know that that, you know, in this day and age, there are so many possibilities. There are no rules anymore, and you never know how one thing will begat another and put you on a path. And I also think about that book that came out a number of years ago just came to mind. I can’t get the title exactly right, but it was how Starbucks saved my life, and it was about the top ad executive and executive who got let go because of his age could find nothing and ended up being a barista as a Starbucks and living in this little apartment and everything. And it talked about how it transformed him for the better in his overall life, as well as the opportunities that it led to. It was absolutely brilliant. I think he came out six or seven years ago.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:26:01] I’ll have to take a look at that. It sounds like a fascinating story, but it leads me to think about this idea of identity and transformation. What gets us stuck? What gets us really stuck and I guess, fearful pursuing new opportunities we get stuck with in this concept of I was a banker, I was a teacher, I was a professor, I was a filmmaker. And if when we when we look at transitions and the possibilities of what could be, we get we can get very scared about what that might look like because we’re so identified with who we were in our professional careers. If you approach it from a very different way, from a playful way of, yeah, I was a banker, but I don’t know, maybe I could be a creative. Maybe I’m interested in film. It’s it’s not a scary right and it just means well, you need to learn a new skill set in order to become that filmmaker in order to become that producer. But it’s certainly possible.


Paul Long: [00:27:04] Likely how you leave that open. And you’re right, when you broaden your expectations and you let go with specific ones, it is immensely freeing and it puts you in greater opportunity of finding something. How do I present myself? I mean, we’ve kind of touched on this, and this is another case of whether I’m trying to keep my job or advance or or find a job not to give you too much of a range, I guess. With that said, naturally, I’m going to, you know, it’s everything from people like, Gosh, I don’t even know how to dress to go for an interview. And I don’t know how you hear about people sitting in the parking lot of the company where they’re going to interview to see what people are wearing. But of course, these are people who are twenty seven years old, which may not look right on me, but also, you know, how much do I own it and say, Hey, here’s who I am, and this is generational and how much do I say I can adapt? I can play foosball.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:28:04] I think that’s such a great that’s such a great question, and I think what gets us stuck is that we say things like, well, that if I try on that outfit, that is so inherently not me. I can’t wear that, but obviously it needs to be age appropriate. But you would never show up to Google in a three piece suit, right? If you were interviewing for Google, you would never show up at an Ernst and young dressed as if you were going to work at Google. Right? So the idea is to become cognizant. I love that idea of becoming an investigator. What are people wearing? So you might not be. Maybe you’re not going to wear the t shirt if you’re an older individual, the T-shirt and the ripped jeans, but maybe you are showing up to that interview in a jeans and a shirt. Right. That you fit, that you’re not. In other words, you don’t want to stand out entirely from that culture. There has to be something there should be. Think about what’s similar, what can I how can what similarities do we share? And dress appropriately, I think that’s really important.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:29:10] Like age appropriately, but not but again, have fun with it, right? Have fun with it. And if even if you’re if you’re feeling like this is because the problem with this is not me that gets us stuck, that gets us stuck, this is not me. Well, of course it’s not you because you’re learning to be somebody else or to try on. Let’s say that you’re learning to try on different things. It’s not. It’s going to feel weird at the beginning. It’s supposed to. If we go back to the whole concept of learning, learning, we go to school or we learn on the job and learning by nature is spontaneous. It’s uncomfortable. We haven’t mastered these skills, so they don’t feel like us, but fake it till you become it. Right? Try it again. Be playful. Try on these things. If you’re like, I’ve never gone to work in jeans. But that’s what the culture looks like if you if you show up so radically different, you’re not going to fit in, right?


Paul Long: [00:30:09] Or somebody wearing baggy jeans for the sake of wearing jeans and then you really do look awful. I’ll share a trick that I did, and that is, is that? Well, especially coming in as the so-called creative type in the other kind of content creation business that I was in. And people are expecting me to be thirty three years old, but I don’t want to try to look like I’m look trying to look like I’m thirty three years old. I took everything and just upped it a level. So for instance, you talked about a T-shirt where you can go out and get a very high quality, well fitting T-shirt shirt and wear it under a casual kind of sports jacket, sports coat. And you can instead of wearing blue jeans, you can get like I used to, like five hundred eights. They don’t make them anymore, but well-fitting blue gene material, but you can get them in khaki, you can get them in gray, you can get them in black and then something like a chuck of boot that has a nice look to it. But it’s still casual, right? You’ve upped your wardrobe a little bit. It’s a business interview. I still believe in the thing that always dress a little bit higher than you think is required. Absolutely. But you’re still you’re you’re acquiescing in a positive way to the context you’re adapting, adapting.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:31:30] Well, that’s adapting. It’s not even like you’re acquiescing is you’re adapting right? And you need to. Let’s be honest here we all do this. It doesn’t matter how old you are, we need to play a part. If you want to belong to a certain culture, organizational culture, you need to play a part. It’s just you need to figure out what is that part look like? Dress as part of it, dress is a huge part of it. So can you just walk us through a little bit of what that felt like for you? Like actually going about upping your wardrobe? Can you talk a little bit about that?


Paul Long: [00:31:59] You know what? It made me feel great because in the first place, I felt I felt good in it. I felt appropriate in it, and I thought, I mean, in relative terms, but at least to me, I’m like, I own this. Yeah, I feel great, you know, and I love the I love the snug fitting jeans, and I’m like, you know, I’m I was comfortable with it. And quite frankly, it made me feel what I was trying to represent, which is what I am.


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:32:30] Which probably made you feel confident, right, to walk in there and


Paul Long: [00:32:34] My shoulders are back a little bit more and yeah, I’m owning it, I’m owning


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:32:38] It. Yeah, and that’s what you want to do. You want, you want to you want to give them the opportunity to see you shine, you know? And so these little tweaks and that’s what they are tiny tweaks, right? They go a long way. And the first thing, unfortunately, like it or not like it, people are going to judge you based on what you look like and so do what you stack the cards in your favor. What does that image need to look like? Right. We’re not talking anything extreme here, but we’re talking dress. Well, dress as an easy one to change. It really, really is. So and I love that you remark like, it sounds to me like going back to what we were saying before. Be playful with it. Have fun with it. Yeah, absolutely. Doesn’t have to be so scary.


Paul Long: [00:33:20] There is so much more on this topic, so much more that you have to offer. And we’ve done another podcast, podcast podcast with this kind of content directed at HR people. There’s a lot more in terms of blogs and interviews coming up in the future with Jill. Before I ask you my last question, how’s it? What’s the best way for people to connect with you or seek out more from you?


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:33:46] Yeah, I’m on LinkedIn, Jillian. I have a website rewired to retire. I love hearing from from from people hearing about HR as well as employees. What’s going on in your world? Talk to us. We want to know. I want to know what your challenges, challenges are and what your greatest accomplishments are.


Paul Long: [00:34:08] What do you think is the number one takeaway? What is what is the number one critical thing to leave us thinking?


Dr. Gillian Leithman: [00:34:18] Ah, you know, it’s so difficult to boil it down to one thing, right, but I guess if we are to carry through with on the thread of this conversation, it would be. Challenge your assumptions, are you carrying around those self limiting beliefs? Because it might be you that is your own worst enemy. Right, and so challenge those assumptions and seek out models that have done it differently. And that’s the really cool part about being this age today is because there are such great models. There are people out there doing amazing, amazing things at, at at sixty five, at 70, at 80. So I would say challenge your beliefs and seek out evidence. I’m not asking you to believe something that isn’t true. Seek out evidence to support these beliefs. I’m saying people are really doing it differently today. Seek out those people who are doing it different.


Paul Long: [00:35:17] If you like this, there’s a lot more on YouTube. Also, there’s even more on new way forward. That’s new way fwt. There you can subscribe. You’ll get a free newsletter regularly, you’ll get special updates and you’ll get a free download to help you step by step. Get going on your new way forward.

How to stay Employed or Find a Job for Older Workers