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Networking Tips for Success – The must-have methods to achieve your goals

Networking Tips for Success – The must-have methods to achieve your goals.

You may know that networking is critical, but so few know how to do it with success because they are lacking the tips and methods to succeed at it.

Whatever you’re striving for, a job, career advancement, starting a business, or realizing a major goal, networking is critical which means networking tips for success is a must-have.

It is said the three keys to success are Networking, Networking, and Networking. But how do you do it? Here are answers from the man known as the “Father of Modern Networking”.

In this New Way Forward interview, Dr. Ivan Misner will give you specific methods, techniques, and tips that will enable anyone to succeed at networking. He will also give you the insight and knowledge to understand how it works and to understand your potential connection so that you can get the relationship going.

Misner is the Founder & Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, the world’s largest business networking organization with over 10,000 chapters throughout every populated continent of the world. Each year, BNI passes millions of referrals resulting in billions of dollars worth of business for its members. Networking is a powerful tool if used properly and most people don’t.

In fact, many are too scared to try it. It can open up new possibilities, help you overcome ageism, give you confidence, change your career, boost your business and sales, find the people you need to find.

Connect with Dr. Misner at

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Podcast Transcript: Networking Tips for Success – The must-have methods to achieve your goals

Dr. Ivan Misner: So many people say they don’t like networking, but they recognize that it’s important to build their business, networking is more about farming than it is about hunting. It really is about cultivating relationships, looking for a job, getting referrals. You can’t be desperate. Desperation is not referable, so be patient. Networking is more about farming. You’ve got to make connections. You’ve got to build relationships and you’ve got to get out there. It’s not called Net Sid or Net Eat. It’s called network. You can go out there and you got to work your networks. And don’t expect immediate results. It takes time


Paul Long: Helping you find your New Way Forward to the best years of your life. This is a new way forward podcast with your host, Paul Long.


Paul Long: There are three keys fundamental keys to success. Number one is networking. Number two is networking. Number three is networking. That’s right. Networking. Whether you’re looking for a job or to start a business or an enterprise, or be self-employed or start a movement, whatever you need other people, you need to connect with the right people and get them on board. That’s called networking. Yet so many people either don’t do it or they’re afraid of it, or they do it in a disastrous way that’s not going to help them well. Just watching this interview will change all of that for you. You will learn how to do it the right way, and you’re going to learn from probably the number one person on planet Earth that can help you. Dr Ivan Meisner In fact, he is known as the father of modern networking. He’s the founder and chief visionary officer of BNZ, which is the world’s largest business networking organisation. They’ve got over ten thousand chapters throughout the world. He is a goldmine of information, and let’s start with the most fundamental point of all of why is networking so critical?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Well, you know, networking is, I think, extremely important in order to be successful. In one of my books, I surveyed twelve thousand people. And one of the questions we asked was his networking played a role in your success? Ninety two percent, just under 92 percent, said yes to that question. When have you ever seen 92 percent of any group of people say yes to anything? You know, you can’t get that many people to agree to anything. Yet the overwhelming majority and by the way, this was the survey that was open to the business public and it was global. So it wasn’t just people in my organisation and me and I, it was. It was a global global survey open to the public. And I mean, that to me is amazing. So many people say they don’t like networking, but they recognise that it’s important to build their business.


Paul Long: Well, sometimes it really comes down to the fundamentals, and that’s what I wonder if people know what’s what they’re supposed to do and how I mean by comparison. Tell me how you see a lot of people kind of failing or falling short. And and then we can get into some of the the must dos.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Yeah, yeah, they listen. A lot of people are falling short when it comes to networking. People, oftentimes, they just don’t have a clue what they should be doing to build a powerful personal network. And my the most common one that I see is where people use networking as a face to face cold calling opportunity. You know, they meet somebody and say, Hi, my name is so-and-so, let’s do business, and they’re trying to jump right into doing business as opposed to building a relationship. I’ll never forget I did a keynote in London years ago, 900 people in the audience. It was an all day affair. And I, when I finally had a chance to speak, not quite the end of the day, but close to it. I stood up and said, How many of you are here today hoping to maybe just possibly sell something? Paul, nine hundred people raise their hands. It’s a great thank you. Second question, how many of you are here today hoping to, you know, maybe just possibly buy something. No one raised their hands, right? Not one single person. This is what I call the networking disconnect. People show up to networking events wanting to sell. Nobody’s there to buy. And is it any wonder that some people don’t like networking? Because when you go to networking events, people are selling to you and you know, you feel like you have to go home and get a shower because you’ve been slimed. And so that’s that’s doing it wrong. So people then say to me, Well, then why go if you’re not there to sell? Here’s why you go to networking events. To work your way through the VCP process. V c p visibility, credibility, profitability.


Dr. Ivan Misner: First, you have to be visible. People have to know who you are and what you do then and only then can you get to credibility where people know who you are. They know what you do and they know you’re good at it. That one takes time. Building credibility takes time. Then, and only then, when you build credibility can you move to profitability where people know who you are, they know what you do. They know you’re good at it and they’re willing to refer business to you. And this is a process, not a formula. It’s not visibility. Plus credibility equals profitability because that’s not true, necessarily. It’s a process you move from visibility to credibility to profitability. And by the way, it starts with invisibility, a fourth level and mentioned. But it starts with invisibility because, you know, when you meet someone once and you don’t see them again for a year, you’ve been invisible to them. They don’t know who you are or what you do. And and I see so many people with this networking, this kind of concept where they try to jump over visibility, they try to jump over credibility. They only get right to getting referrals from people. And I call this in one of my books. I call this premature solicitation, which you don’t want to say fast. Three times it’ll get you in trouble. So, you know, that’s what you don’t do is the disconnect. What you do do is go to networking meetings to create visibility with people you don’t know, to create credibility with those that you know and you want to build the relationship with and to continue profitability with the people that you’re in a referral relationship with.


Paul Long: And I would think in terms of looking for prospects, you know, wanting to make a sale or or whatever. This also applies, you know, if people are looking for a job or a career change or to be a gig worker, you know, freelance or whatever. Is it the same process? And if so, so what? What is the best method to follow that VCP process?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Well, it is the same method, however. There is when it comes to employment or looking for a job. In some ways, it is a little bit different because there’s a growth growing groves near grown investors. The strength of weak ties. The research that he did on the strength of weak ties and a lot of people will throw that at me in terms of referrals, and they’re dead wrong on referrals because his research was based on employment. And weak ties will not help at all or hardly at all with a referral because people want to refer people they know, like and trust. But a job they might, they’re way more likely to refer somebody that they don’t know real well with the caveat. Hey, look, Paul, I know you’re looking for somebody. I met somebody who’s, you know, looking for a job. I don’t know him, and I can’t tell you a whole lot about them, but I know that they’re looking. And, you know, would you like me to make an introduction so people are a lot more likely to do that with employment? So VCP applies, but the truth is just the visibility piece when it comes to looking for a job can actually work pretty well because of the strength of weak ties.


Paul Long: So, you know, certainly from from my knowledge and even an interview on New Way Forward with Dr. Natalia Rochinski, who’s a global personal branding expert, that’s visibility. That’s like, for instance, on LinkedIn, you know, having a good profile, having a good picture and posting or sharing just to let people know that you’re out there and what you’re capable of. It’s all honest. It’s not trying to be some movie star or something. So when it comes to this first step of the process, especially for people who are starting out, whether they’re starting a business, whether they’re looking for work or career change, which by the way, like you said, you start early. If you’re thinking about it, you start now. What are some of the the the ways and methods, whether it’s digital or in-person, for you to really get that visibility portion going?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Let’s talk about this in networking in terms of employment in general. There are a number of things I recommend. And you can find an article that I wrote on my blog and I’ve been my intercoms six steps to find a job through networking. So some of the things that you want to keep in mind is, first, you’ve got to get your mindset right. Desperation is not referable. Let me repeat that desperation is not referable. So if you’re depending on your network to speak highly of you, then you want to make sure that you don’t come across as desperate because they’re not going to, they’re not going to refer you easily. Second thing I’d recommend and this is this actually relates to networking, because if they’re going to refer you one of the first things and you probably know this, you’re in the field image, check your social media. Because before I refer somebody, the first thing I do if somebody says, Hey, I’m looking for this job, and I said, Gee, I think I know somebody that might have that give me your name and I’ll, you know, make an and possibly make an introduction. First thing I do is I go, look at your social media because that’s what potential employers will do when I was hiring. You know, I’ve gone from being King Arthur for my company, leading the charge to Colonel Sanders. You know, I’m now the spokesperson for the company. But when I was King Arthur with the business I started, I remember I would check out some people’s social media before I hired them, and I saw one guy who was throwing out the f-bomb.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Like every post and I’m thinking, No, no, I’m not going to hire this guy. He just wasn’t thinking. And so now I checked social media before. Before I refer someone. So image? Check your social media. Start with your current relationships. Who are the people that you already know before you start asking people you don’t know, who do you know? Start with friends, family, business contacts, you know, in person or on LinkedIn or via social media. Facebook has kind of redefined what a friend is. So I’m talking about real friends, not Facebook friends. I have 5000 Facebook friends and then one hundred and eighty thousand followers on Facebook. They’re not my friends. Their Facebook friends, and there’s a difference, so reach out to people that you are really, legitimately a credibility with personally or professionally and start with them before you start going outside there. Start with that concentric, you know, its concentric circles. So you start with the people, you’re like family and then and then close friends. And then, you know, maybe friends that aren’t real close, but they’re still friends where you could reach out to them and say, Hey, I’m looking for I’m not going to start. I’m either. I’m looking to start a business or I’m looking for a new job. This is the kind of work I’m looking for. There’s nothing wrong with reaching out to those people. So before you start asking, you know, strangers that you meet at a networking event, start with your existing connections, inventory your other connections, people that you don’t really think that you’re, you know, if you ask them, Are we friends? They’d say, what? No, I mean, I don’t know you if they were being honest, I don’t really know you inventory those other connections.


Dr. Ivan Misner: So it’s OK. It’s OK to reach out to them because it’s the it’s the strength of weak ties, which really works for employment as opposed to referrals. So inventory and then start reaching out to those contacts. Visit organizations in the industry that you want. That’s hands on networking. The purpose of getting work in the field that you’re looking for, visit those organizations and make connections there. And then once you get that referral, those six suggestions, once you get a referral, make sure to research your prospective employer so you’re not walking in cold. There’s nothing worse. I would, you know, I would interview some people and they’re like, Explain what is being. I am like, Really, man, you know, there’s this thing called the internet you might have wanted to like, get on there. You know, check with your Google to see what is being AI before you come in for a job interview. You know, when I was, I was much younger, didn’t have so much gray hair. I was looking for work. I always did whatever I could to research the company and that really took research. You know, it meant going to the library sometimes to figure out who is this company that I was going to be doing. And then here’s a really interesting technique which doesn’t work at higher level jobs. So this may not be relevant to most of your people.


Dr. Ivan Misner: But I recommended it to my daughter when she was first looking for work, and it works offer to do a working interview. Have you ever heard of those? No. What does that mean? So again, it doesn’t work. You know, if you’re going to be a manager of something, but it works if you’re going to, you know, it was it was an olive oil company that she went to work for a retailer she wanted to work at. And and I said just offer to do a working interview. And of course, she’s like, What is that? I said, Look, just tell them that you’ll work. You’re happy to work all day. They don’t have to pay her anything. And so that they can see her work ethic so and just tell them you can see my work ethic. You can see me in action. And it won’t cost you anything. I’ll just volunteer my day now. Oftentimes they’ll actually pay the person anyway, because there are often employment issues about, you know, just using labor like that. But I’ll tell you what they did. They said, OK, we’re doing an event. Come take photographs. Took no there is no labor law issues because she was volunteering to take photos and they could see her work ethic. And she took great photos and they hired her. They hired her because she often offered to volunteer her time so that they could really observe her in action. So I think something like a working interview for some levels, lower level jobs is brilliant and I’ve recommended to others who have gotten the job doing


Paul Long: That well and that that kind of brings up that brings up the second thing or something related to that because, you know, I remember learning ages ago and I know with my sons, you know, who are in their 20s for looking for stuff. I said, you approach somebody looking for a job, looking for a sale or whatever, and it’s like immediate defense mechanism goes up. But if you ask someone for help, like I had a co-anchor many years ago and she was looking to crack into a market, and she sent her tape out to news directors who got inundated with tapes run away. But she’d say, You know, could you look at my tape and tell me if you think I’m ready for the site market, any suggestion, you know, could you help? And of course, one of those news directors hired her and she’s still on the air in that city.


Dr. Ivan Misner: That’s nice. You know, what about another? Another variation of that is to say, Do you know someone who might know someone? Exactly. It’s a variation of that. And that works really well because you’re not you’re not putting them on the spot. Hey, do you know anybody that, you know, might be looking for the kind of work I do? But do you know anyone who might know someone for the kind of work? And of course, if they know someone, they’re going to go, Well, I do. Oh, that’s great. You know, they’re going to do that automatically. And then otherwise what they’ll do is they’ll let’s say they don’t have someone, then they’re really going to start thinking, Do I know anybody that might know someone in that profession? And that’s a whole different thought process. Do you know anyone makes you think differently than do you know anyone that knows anyone? Because if you ask, do you know anyone that knows anyone, you think of yourself as well, you would include yourself in that. So make sense.


Paul Long: I like that because because I had, I had sit at my son’s always end any opportunity with saying, Do you have a name? Do you have somebody else? Do you think that it’d be worthwhile to talk to? But in talking with my oldest about this interview last night when he moved out to another major city, like, you know, I really want to try living out there, went out there without a job and I was proud of him. I couldn’t believe the amount of networking and networking events that he went to presents himself very well. But he said, I felt so frustrated because all these people who I was saying, you know, if you know of something that I felt like I got nowhere with even more, I felt like I was doing it. I did everything you said, Dad. We know that story. What?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Oh gosh. Believe me, I’ve got that for my kids. So not all of them.


Paul Long: They’re a better way to do that. Or is it also, you know, watch your expectations as to, you know, how fast or likely it’ll happen?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Well, networking is more about farming than it is about hunting. It really is about cultivating relationships. And so I do get people who are in their fifties and sixties who, you know, younger, but I mean people who have been around a while who say, you know, I just I lost my job and, you know, I need to I need to start building my network. Ooh, wow, OK. You know, you build your network throughout your career and so you maintain contacts. Now, having said that, I usually quote them the old Chinese proverb When’s the best time to plant an oak tree? And the answer is, 20 years ago wins the second best time. Ok, today. So then that’s when I say, OK, so referrals don’t, you know, looking for a job getting referrals? You can’t be desperate. Desperation is not referable. So be patient. Networking is more about farming. You’ve got to make connections. You’ve got to build relationships and you’ve got to get out there. It’s not called net sit or net eat. It’s called network. So you can go out there and you got to work your networks. And don’t expect immediate results. It takes time. So, you know, I’d


Paul Long: Love for you to riff a little bit more about the the farming versus hunting, so yeah, what does that mean in terms of process? And you might want to go back to VCP, but it is.


Dr. Ivan Misner: It is VCP. It’s, you know, farming is about building the relationship. And so how do you build the relationship? Well, one of the first things that you do to go a little bit deeper in building a relationship is try to do one to ones with people where, you know, let’s, you know, if you’re looking for a job, it’s a little harder to get a one to one unless you’re asking to meet with them to get some advice. A lot of people are willing to give advice to young people, you know, a one time kind of thing. But if you’re in business and you are looking to build a business relationship with somebody, one to ones are really, really powerful and absolutely necessary as part of the networking is more about farming than it is about hunting. And so let me give you a technique that I recommend. For doing one to once it’s called, I call it the Gaines Exchange G a I and S, I write about it in several places on my blog. I’ve been Just do a search on Gaines exchange and you’ll find material on it. It stands for goals, accomplishments, interests, networks and skills. And the idea is, I’ll share my goals. You share your goals, I’ll share my accomplishments.


Dr. Ivan Misner: You share your accomplishments. I’ll share my interests, yours interests, networks, networks, skills, skills. Now why is this important? It’s important because you want to find overlapping areas of interest. That’s what this is all about is to find overlapping areas of interest. I remember when I first experimented with this in the 90s, it was in a book I wrote back then. And before I wrote the book, I was trying to find a technique. And so I had a BNP meeting and they were willing to play with me a little bit and I said, OK, test this thing out. It’s called the game’s exchange, and I gave it so everyone and I give it to two guys and everyone had it. But these two guys, one of them, raised his hand and went on over and said, Yeah, he said, we don’t want to do this. I said, OK, why? You said, I swear this is what he said, because it’s waning. That’s why it’s Weenie. Like, it’s Weenie. What do you mean? He said It’s silly. Why? Why? Why should we do this? Like, OK? I have a very specific reason. But if. Please do it, and if at the end you don’t like it, you can put in this survey. You know, this was Weenie.


Dr. Ivan Misner: It was silly. We, you know, we didn’t like it and they’re like, they grumble and say, OK, fine. So they did it. Now, these two guys had been in this group for almost a year. They’d never done business together. They didn’t get past Paul. They didn’t get past interests. They got the goals, accomplishments, interests. Now everybody finished, except them. They got the interest. And that was it. They were so immersed in the conversation because they it turns out they were both soccer coaches. For their son’s soccer teams about the same age, that was it, that’s all they talk about for the rest of the session was, you know, what are some of the coaching techniques you use? Here are some of the ones I use. Hey, you know, would you mind scouting for me? I’ll scout for you. I’ll videotape you. Videotape. They they were just so interested in that topic that that’s all they spoke about. And then when they filled the survey out, they’re like, No, no, this worked great. Never mind. But here’s the powerful thing they’d never done business with each other for almost a year. And within months, they had both referred business to each other, and I asked them why they thought that was.


Dr. Ivan Misner: And they said, You know what? Honestly, it’s because we kind of like, cared for each other. We built a relationship. And when you build a relationship with someone, you don’t want to let them down. And you know, I really went out of my way to find referrals for him, and he did the same for me. And and that’s why one to ones are really important. I did a survey, one last thing they did a survey. Now I’m sorry, I didn’t do a survey. I did a podcast on a survey that was done in Europe as part of a university study where they tracked one to one as being done in a region of Beni. And they found that they compared people who did one one to one a month to people who did for one to once a month. So one a month versus one a week. The people who did want a week. Passed twice as many referrals as the ones who did one to one a month. But here’s what’s even more important. They received. Twice as many referrals as the people who did only one one to one a week. So we tell people you want to double the amount of business you get do one one to one a week.


Paul Long: You know. The Gates exchange, yeah, that’s absolutely brilliant, because the other things to come come to my mind is that, I mean, it’s interpersonal dynamics and relationships. 101. You know, if you want somebody to like like you, you first of all, show that you like them and that you you find commonality, you find common interests and and you’re absolutely right, just with those two gentlemen you were talking about because there was a mutual interest, there was that trust factor there a commonality? And and it was the process that made it just that next person coming up to me. And by the way, that that’s even a segue way into the other point that’s going to some of these new network events and the dos and don’ts on it because to your to your in informal survey early on, everybody’s there to network, but no one wants to be networked.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Right. And nobody wants to sell, but nobody wants to be sold to.


Paul Long: Exactly. And so and you know, as a producer, I put on these big events at everything, and more often than not, people were only showing up to network. You know, it’s like, Well, we do have some good content going on here. So, so speaking of that, then, you know, because because network events are so huge. And by the way, I’ll also say that the dynamics as I know them because I’ve been to a couple of DNI meetings, business networking international are the is what the acronym stands


Dr. Ivan Misner: For actually business network international. What did I just say? Networking, networking? My apologies. It’s OK, but our trademark is B and I,


Paul Long: B and I write B and I is set up for this very thing to to to make it work the way that you’re talking about. And I thought


Dr. Ivan Misner: A structured process. It’s all about building relationships.


Paul Long: And that’s the beauty of it. You go there, you meet people. And but the way that it’s structured is enabling for everyone to succeed at what they’re there to do. And by the way, knowing that you’re going there to do that, then all of a sudden makes it all OK. I mean, at some


Dr. Ivan Misner: Point you start to build your


Paul Long: Relationship. I was talking to me and obviously I did not need her services, but it was still engaging and interesting. Yeah. So when you go to a networking event? The do’s and don’ts of especially if most of the people you don’t know what are the things you want to do and what I mean, what’s the mindset? And also everybody’s always uncomfortable walking up to people. I don’t know what to say. Do I do small talk? Yeah. Your guide.


Dr. Ivan Misner: So one of the first things that I recommend is that when you walk into a room, observe the room and you’re going to see you’re going to look at rooms completely different from now on anyone who watches this video are going to you’re going to look at a room completely different people who are standing around the room, let’s say two people talking when they’re standing like this face to face perpendicular to each other. You’re not going to be able to break into that conversation, dismiss that, that dyad immediately. People who are standing like a triangle, you’re not going be able to break into that conversation at all. So what you want to do is observe the room and look for open to people that are standing just slightly askew. Talking to one another or open threes like this or an open for where there’s just an open or an open group where there’s a spot and then slide into that spot. This works even for introverts, especially, and this is counterintuitive, but the larger the group, the easier it is for an introvert to slip in. Really, it’s like, yeah, because they’re like, I noticed. You got two people and you slide into that and it’s like. You know, you can’t you can’t hide behind anyone, but you slide into a larger group. It’s actually a little easier to slide in and then at some point somebody’s going to say, So tell me, you know, who are you? What do you do? And so look for open two’s open threes, open groups whenever you walk into a room. This is a subtle but significant technique to start dialogues with people. It’s also a great technique to use if you’re running events to teach people how to stand when they’re networking.


Dr. Ivan Misner: And this comes out of my book, you can find I’m sure I’m almost positive this is in my blog. Just look for open two’s open threes, but you can also find it in my book Networking like a pro second edition second edition of networking. Like a pro, you can. There’s a graphic in there and you’re welcome to as long as you quote the book. You’re welcome to use the graphic anyway. And and so you want you want to train your people. If you’re running networking events or meetings, even conferences that have open networking, you want to train everyone at the very beginning, the standing open to us, open threes, open groups, and it’s amazing how it works. I mean, I tested this too with a chapter that, you know, the feedback they were getting from people is that they were kind of standoffish. I said, Well, I want to teach you a number of things, but let’s just start with this. You know, always stand in open twos, open threes, open groups to make it really easy for people to feel you want to make it feel inclusive. That’s the only change they made, and all of a sudden their surveys start coming back as I don’t know what it is about this group, but for some reason they’re really easy to start a conversation with people, and it just turned on a dime just by them making that one change. And it works. It really does. I remember I remember speaking at an event I talked about open to the open threes and I’m standing, talking to some guy afterwards, and we’re standing like this.


Dr. Ivan Misner: And he looks at me and goes, I mean, we’re we’re close to. I’m like, OK, thank you. So we open up within a moment, pull within a moment, boom. Third person comes in and we look at each other, hit the first guy and I were like, close three and we open up boom for Boom five, boom six. You know, we got that that circle up for like eight or nine people within two minutes. Because we kept it open. It’s a subtle technique, but it’s the first thing to think about when you go to a networking event. The second thing is, you know, remember that a good networker has two ears and one mouth and should use them both proportionately. You should should really develop good listening skills and learn how to ask questions. A good networker is like a good interviewer. You’re asking me questions and you’re just letting me go, you know, and and I’m talking, I’m trying to answer the question, but you’re giving me plenty of opportunity to do that. That’s what a good networker does. And so a lot of people think that introverts are bad at networking. Introverts think they’re bad at networking. Oh, you’re not. If you’re an introvert, you’re not bad at networking. You could be potentially great. Now you may have a hard time meeting people, so you really need to look for those open to open threes. But an introvert? They listen much better extroverts. They don’t have a problem. Know meeting people. Their problem is they speak. And what’s their favorite subject? What do you think your favorite subject is?


Paul Long: Well, not them


Dr. Ivan Misner: Or me themselves. So, you know, they like to talk about themselves. So, you know, extroverts are not necessarily great networkers unless they train themselves to ask questions and listen. So, you know, look for the open to’s, open threes, ask questions, get people to talk. And then when you have a chance to speak, you know, give a unique selling proposition that makes give a unique selling proposition that passes the eyebrow test. Ok. Here’s the eyebrow test. A good friend of mine, Sam Horn, shared this with me. She wrote the book Pop and someday is not a day of the week. I love the title. So here’s the eyebrow test. If you say something that makes people’s eyes, eyebrows scrunch. I think that you’ve confused them. Whatever it is, you said they like that they don’t get what you’re talking about. What if you say something and their eyebrows do this? You got their attention,


Paul Long: You got my attention, my eyebrows naturally. Oh yeah,


Dr. Ivan Misner: Yeah, when I said the eyebrows that you


Paul Long: Want. That’s brilliant. I love that because, yeah, it’s just like, Oh, really? And even like in social media and such, you want the Oh, really? That’s what grabs people and interest them. And if it’s scrunch, it’s doubt. Or or yeah, that’s it.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Yeah. So whatever you say, you know, practice it and observe their responses. And you know, when you’re when you have a unique selling proposition where people’s eyebrows go up, then that’s a good one.


Paul Long: And how hard a sale do you do it? I mean, there’s always the context of it now. If it’s if it’s like a job fair, if it’s an intentional thing, yes, you’re there to pitch yourself, pitch your business and not just job fair, but whatever where it’s a trade show, let’s say yes, you’re there to pitch your product, your business, your enterprise, being a gig work or whatever, but


Dr. Ivan Misner: Behind the table and they’re coming up to your table, then it’s appropriate to


Paul Long: Pitch to just go. Here’s what I’ve got to offer, but if it’s if it’s more of that kind of social gathering thing, how hard do you go?


Dr. Ivan Misner: You don’t go at all because you know the old expression, it never hurts to ask. Yes, it’s dead wrong. It’s absolutely wrong. Now asking again going the strength of weak ties, employment, different issue. We’re talking about referrals. Yeah. If you ask before there’s a relationship, you’re never going to have a relationship. You know why. Because the person is going to be put off. You’re asking for, you know, a good contact. You’re asking for business. You’re asking for a referral and they don’t even know you. You can absolutely ask too soon. So you’ve got to wait and and remember the VCP process, where am I with this person? I’m an invisibility. If I’m at invisibility, I’m not going to pitch them. I’m I’m crazy. If I pitch them, I’m advisability. I’m still too early. I’m a credibility. Ok, let’s have a discussion. But the truth is, if they’re interested in what you have to offer by the time you hit credibility, they’re going to tell you. Tell me more about what you do because I might be interested, but people go to networking events and they’re trying to sell. They’re using it as a face to face cold calling event. It’ll look, you’ll get some sales, but even a blind squirrel can find a nut. You’ll you’ll stumble over business. But that’s not what networking is about. Networking is about building relationships and getting referrals. And if it’s the farming, it’s, you know, people referring you as opposed to you going out there and hunting, hunting, you know, killing what you need for the week. Yeah.


Paul Long: And it was also to kind of keep this going. It would almost seem to. And again, every environment’s different and what you’re pitching, whether it’s yourself or whatever your endeavor is or your product or whatever that it would also seem at the very least. And I know just in trying to make some contacts that weren’t specifically sell something or sell myself, but maybe to start forging a relationship, they’re just taking the approach of of at least finding that commonality with that person and the legitimacy of me doing some sort of appropriate follow up. In other words, I’m not there to land the big fish. I’m there to get access to a private pond. The terrible analogy, but you take my point.


Dr. Ivan Misner: So let’s talk about follow up. So let me give you a technique on follow up. I call it a twenty four, seven 30 technique. Twenty four seven thirty within twenty four you meet somebody. Whether it be online digital, it’s different than like on LinkedIn or something, but you actually meet somebody. Online or personal within 24 hours. What you want to do is reach out to them and just say, hey, it was really great to meet you at such and such event. I enjoyed our discussion on whatever. I always try to take notes on anybody that I’m going to, that I want to get back on. So, you know, when they walk away, I’ll and I have one of their cards. I’ll ask people for their card and I’ll write on the back, which, by the way, in some countries bad form. You can’t write on cards in mostly Asian countries. So have a little notepad and just keep your keep some notes. And so when you when you send them an email or go crazy and do something that nobody does anymore, send a card, you know, send something through the mail.


Paul Long: Oh, you mean actually send a written personal?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Yes. What a crazy idea that is. That is shocking. How do you get he does that. And so when you get that, it’s and I like, you know, in the United States and in some other countries, there’s a program called Send Out Cards. I’m a client, not a not. I don’t sell, but I’m a client. It’s a great program where you can send a a card through the mail, but you do it online, so you type it all up online and you get send. And then the person actually gets a physical card through the through the mail to great service and and sending something through the mail, I think, is very, very powerful. But you do that within a day. Get it out and say, Hey, it was really nice meeting you. I hope our paths cross again. Don’t sell to them. Don’t sell to them within seven days, connect with them on social media, you know, and one of the things you might want to do when you’re actually talking to them is find out what, what social media platform do they like Facebook, LinkedIn? I literally just before we started this interview, I was on Clubhouse.


Dr. Ivan Misner: And so, you know, on Clubhouse, you’re on LinkedIn, you’re on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, where are you? And and make a note of that or write it down mentally or write it down and then connect with them there. And and once you connect with them there, maybe comment on some of their posts, you know, follow them, follow what they’re up to, what they’re interested in and and don’t sell to them. And let me let me add one other thing I’ll see if I can do this part. Quickly, I learned from my kids that it’s important to communicate with my children the way they want to be communicated with, not the way I wanted to communicate with them. So, you know, I like Facebook. I’m really, really more active on Facebook than the others. But what if the person is more active on Instagram? Then go there and you may say, Well, I’m not active on Instagram. Well, then you know, then you don’t want their business because if you want to connect with them, you’ve got to go where they are, not where you want to be. And I learned


Paul Long: That’s that deferential point of it and in fact, a very good technique, too. On LinkedIn, people you haven’t even met and I’ve had this happen before is that when I start following them, like on LinkedIn, let’s say, and I’m responding, I’m making thoughtful comments and I’m sharing their content. That’s it for me to do it. I’m not just automatically doing it right. Well, lo and behold, I mean, the author of this book, Jay Samit, who, you know, all of a sudden we’re exchanging emails and such. So that really works. But you’re right. They are. Yes.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Yes. And I learned that from my kids because my eldest, you know, she wouldn’t answer the phone, but she’d respond to a text and my next child wouldn’t answer a phone, respond to a text, but she would message me on WhatsApp. My next child wouldn’t do either of the three, but he was on Steam, an online game program. So I went out and bought a game so that I could instant message my son and he’d respond immediately and I learned from them, you know, I got to go with, they are not where I am if I want to actually have a conversation with them. And so within seven days, connect with them on their favorite social media and don’t sell to within 30 days. Twenty four, seven, 30, then 30 days reach out to say, Hey, we met a month ago. I had a great conversation. I’ve been following some of the stuff that you’re doing on social media. I love that post you did the other day. I’d love to get together either via Zoom or in person. I’d love to get together and have a one to one and learn more about what you do. And then if they say yes, you have the one to one and don’t sell to them. I call it a sales seizure. People just can’t help themselves. They’re in that one to one and they start pitching. Don’t pitch, do something like the Gaines exchange where you’re learning about each other. It’s this is what I mean when I say networking is more about farming than hunting.


Paul Long: That’s really. And by the way, this technique works because I used it with Dr. Meisner in getting in touch with him and getting him on this program because you are on a kind of closed group discussion that I was on and within 24 hours I sent you that note. So on and so forth. So so it definitely, you know, it definitely works. So. A lot of people of all ages and certainly people who are quote unquote older. I mean, in Silicon Valley, that means 40, 50, 60, whatever. They’re not just looking for jobs, I mean, they’re starting up businesses, they’re starting up enterprises or they’re selling things or even selling themselves a lot. Gig working, freelancing. Contract working. It’s in so much of of what you’ve succeeded at is helping people with networking and selling things, including selling themselves. So you’ve given a lot of good techniques and in ideas here, but what would you say is like probably, you know, if you’re trying to sell the business to sell an entrepreneurial idea, get more business for yourself. Beyond these techniques, what is it that you really wish people would realize and put a little bit more heart and soul and time into?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Well, I think one of the things if we’re talking about in general for a successful business, I think you want to be successful in business. You’ve got to do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things, six times. And I see way too many business people doing a thousand things six times if I have any superpower at all as a business person, it is that I am a dog with a bone. I will take some concepts and work it and work it and work it and work it until I get it to work well. Then, by the way, it doesn’t have to be six, it can be five. It could be seven. But what I find happened, and I keep this here in my desk drawer because I talk about this with people a lot. People are constantly chasing bright, shiny objects. It’s like, Oh, that’s something new. Let’s try this. They they’re chasing something else. They’re looking for some magic pill that will change their business. Look, if you ever find that magic pills, somebody tell me because I’m a 20 year overnight success. It took me 20 years to build my business, you know? It’s about good choices and hard work, and it’s about finding a handful of things that you do over and over and over again consistently. What are those things? What kind of depends on your business, but you use programs like this to find people that resonate with you to figure out what are those things that you should be doing over and over and over and over and over and over again? And that’s the way you get successful. I mean, look at you, look at BMI, we have ten thousand four hundred weekly meetings. All around the world. Every week, ten thousand four hundred meetings. That is consistency over time, timed repetition following a system and a process. And that’s why last year we passed eighteen billion billion with a B $18 billion worth of business for our members.


Paul Long: And that was by well, it’s just like the concept of blocking and tackling, knowing what you’re good at and what you’re not or knowing what you should be doing and what you should be hiring other people to do and staying fundamental. How do you do that? Because I know sometimes even for myself and you know, I’ve been fortunate in that some of the things that I helped create and develop and execute from a production standpoint, videos or live shows or car reveals or stuff. A success factor for me was knowing what I was good at and what I didn’t and wasn’t or what I should be doing, not doing and bringing in those experts with it. That’s one thing, but sometimes even in this endeavor, I have a hard time kind of sorting out what those one or six things are that I should be solely focused on and not the other ones. How do you do that?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Well, using people that you trust to talk about what are really what you want to look for are the key performance indicators your KPIs. What are the key performance indicators for your business? And then everything you do should be directly related to that. Everything you do should have a direct and dramatic impact on your key performance indicators. And what happens is when you start getting off off track, doing things that aren’t part of the normal system to to operate or to move your KPIs forward. That’s when you just you get off track and you use your mentors for that. I mean, I’ll give you an example. I had a franchise with Barney, who was one of the top 10 in the world. One of the top 10 in the world. And he said, I got this great idea. I want to start doing mixers once a month. And it was in. It was in a town that’s known for parties. And he said, I want to I want to do mixers and I’m going to invite people to the evening mixer because this is a party town. We like to party down. It’s going to be good. People come and then we’re going to refer them to be in chapters and then they’re going to go to the been-I chapters and they’ll join.


Dr. Ivan Misner: And I said, Man, don’t do that. Seriously, don’t do that. I’ve done it. It’s a distraction. You get people to come to an evening event. All of our meetings tend to be in the morning and there every week, not once a month. They’re going to see something completely different and then it’s a double sale. You get them to come to the event, meaning evening event. They think that’s it. And, you know, and then when they learned something different, they’re not going to come. It’s a double sale. Don’t do it. And oh, by the way, it takes a lot of bandwidth away from the things you should be doing. He said, No, no, no, this will work. Well, we’re a franchise organization, so I can’t make them not do something. I mean, they’re going to do it. And he did. He went from being in the top ten within one year to being in the bottom fourth. Bottom fourth, and he sold his franchise. In the bottom fourth, instead of the top 10, he could have made three times as much money. At least twice as much money, and, you know, when a mentor who is successful tells you, don’t do that, then don’t do that.


Paul Long: Listen, the thing you’re doing, someone else is done


Dr. Ivan Misner: It and most likely learn the lesson for some variation of it.


Paul Long: Exactly. And by the way, I’ll throw in masterminding too. You know, I have a couple of colleagues and in fact, one of them, I do believe, is the BNP member. And this is somebody who they’re doing their thing. I’m doing mine. We’re not connected financially. We aren’t close friends, we aren’t family members. And once every six weeks or so, we get together for coffee. Here’s what I’m doing. Here’s what I’m worried about. Here’s where I’m stuck and you get that kind of input. You know, you get that gut check, slap upside the head or validation, and you also learn a lot from helping them as well. But you’re right about that. You know, listening to people who, you know, like, built up a gigantic organization and


Dr. Ivan Misner: You who’ve been successful. And and here’s another thing that I tell people, you know, a lot of our members, we have big conventions and directors all get together. And one of the things I ask him because people say, Oh, I got this great idea, I get this great idea. And I said, Did you ask them where they are? We have a system in B and it’s called traffic lights. Our top fourth, one fourth franchise, roughly top quartile, is green. The next is yellow. The bottom half is red and the bottom quartile is gray. And I’ll say, where are they in the traffic light system? And they’ll say, I don’t know, well, it’s look, you look like they’re in the gray. I said, OK, take your notes and burn them. Don’t do anything that person told you to do nothing because they’re in the bottom quartile of the organization. You want to run your business into the ground, do what they told you to do. You want to be successful? Go talk to people that are in the green. And so whatever, however, that plays out in your viewers. Talk to people who you know to be successful and who are have similar situations and take their advice. Don’t just take the loudest voice,


Paul Long: Which also ties in to the point that you so often hear that we are. We are the average of the people who we hang out with and who we do business with. That’s a good point. Well, this this also then leads to, you know, what your current book project is, which is about scaling a business. I love it from garage to global. And again, so many people, you know, are either in the great resignation migration saying, you know, it’s my turn, I want to do my thing or people over 50. You know, boomers leave millennials by two to one margin in the number of start ups every year and have a higher, you know, a lot of people are starting their own business and maybe they only want it to be in a garage. Maybe others have aspirations of global. But you know, we just briefly talked about this right before the interview. I’m I’m certainly with my own endeavor wanting mentor me. You know, give me some perspective that you’re putting in this book that will be helping people grow.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Start Culture Eats strategy for breakfast Organizational culture is key to a successful company. Core values are the DNA of an organization, and if you aren’t really clear on what your business’s core values are as you grow, as you hire people, your employees will create your core values and you may not like them. And so it’s really important that you you don’t have to have them overnight, but you’d be working on your core values, how do you get how do you work on your core values? And here I’ve written about this in my blog. Ivan Meisner. Com But I’ve never seen this written quite the same way anywhere. I think core values, some of them you get right in the beginning, but some of them happen because of the processes that you implement that work. So you implement processes. They really work. You like them. Those processes become your traditions. They’re the things you talk about. Well, we were successful because we did this in the, you know, the early days and we had this response. So your processes become your traditions, your traditions become your core values. In core values, create your culture.


Dr. Ivan Misner: So as the founder of a business, as the CEO of a business, no matter how small, you’ve got to get good with your core values. Early on in the process and you have to be a culture champion, you have to be a culture champion. You have to constantly teach people about the core values of your organization and why they’re important. And for example, my CEO now who runs the company. He starts every meeting, every meeting, Zoom meeting, in-person staff, meeting with one of the core values. And he picks on somebody to talk about why pick a core value, any core value you want and talk to us about why you find value in that core value and people know they might get picked up, you know, somebody might say picked on, but they might pick. He might pick somebody. It could be anybody to talk about a core value in being in B and I, and that’s one of the ways you just keep the core values alive. And I think that’s an important aspect you want. You want one more.


Paul Long: Yeah. But before we go to that, one more is I wholeheartedly agree. To me, this is the very same thing. Different semantics, as you know, the golden circle that when people start a business, there’s the what and the how, what is it and what’s the how. And very often, too, is so many successful entrepreneurs and business people will say, if you’re just doing it to make money, you’re probably going to fail. Yeah, but the Golden Circle says you start with the why? Why am I doing this? Why? Why would someone want it? What is the purpose? What are my values behind it? And that that, you know, pardon the cliche, is a true north star that you have to adhere to because I’ve heard so often. That’s a key to failure of not having that.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Yeah, yeah, that’s your magnetic north. No question. You know, it’s where you want to go and you want to do that with your values. Your why is so important?


Paul Long: So you had you have another one, I got more.


Dr. Ivan Misner: And this is this is really important for entrepreneurs. You have to learn to work in your flame and not in your wax. When you’re your flame, you’re on fire. You’re excited, you love what you’re doing, you’re passionate about it. People can hear it in your voice. They can see it in the way you behave when you’re working in your wax just takes all your energy away, and people can hear that in your voice and they can see that in the way you behave. Now, as a startup business, I remember being a startup business. Sometimes you got to do what you got to do to get to do what you want to do, but you’ve got to have a vision about how you’re going to get to your flame. For me, it was creating an organization chart. The first year of my company, I created an organization chart with 15 positions. I had two part time employees. We killed one person and I created a box with 15 different positions, so in every box I would put my name for all the stuff I was doing. And one of there was two women who worked for me and they were like in four boxes and I was in 11. So it was Ivan Meisner, founder CEO, Ivan Meisner, Director of Marketing Ivan Meisner, their complaint department. Ivan Meisner, janitor. Yeah, OK. Oh yeah. You know, I took the trash out. So my goal was to over the next five years to scratch my name out of every box that I was in and put somebody else’s name in there.


Dr. Ivan Misner: That was my goal. And I had that on my desk, and every time I hired somebody for one of those positions, it scratch their name out. I’d write, I’d scratch my name and I’d write their name in felt fantastic. And that was the way I worked towards working in my flame. More and more and more. The one thing I did wrong and anybody who does this don’t do the one thing I did wrong. When I was done, I thought, Oh, this is great. You know, I threw it out and I started a second one. Oh, I wish I would have kept that first chart that I created, and it was done by hand because there was no thing like PowerPoint where you could do org charts, you know, it didn’t exist. So it was eighty five. If I still had that original page, it would be framed and up on my wall right in front of me. So do it and create that vision to be working mostly in your flame and let other people work in your wax because your wax is going to be their flame. That’s the key. You get people who’s who their flame is your wax. I’ll tell you one other quick story. We’re on time, but we’re great on time. The first person that I. I hired for my wax who was a bookkeeper. First person, I hated bookkeeping, I like I can work my way around a financial statement, I know I know how to to pay bills with QuickBooks, but I hated it.


Dr. Ivan Misner: I was just not my flame. So I hired a bookkeeper and I’ll never forget Paul. It’s like the second month that she was with me. She came in. She was so proud. She said it took me like three hours. The books weren’t balanced and it was only it was five cents off, but it took me two three hours. But I found it and the books are balanced and I congratulated her and I told a friend of mine this, and he said, Did you reprimand her? I said, Why would I reprimand her? Because, because it took her three hours to find five cents. I said, No, no, no, no, no, no. You don’t understand. What if it were? What if it were 50 dollars? If it were 50 bucks? I’d say, Hey, close enough, that’s close enough for me. But what if you were five hundred dollars? She wouldn’t go home at night? She would find that five hundred dollars, no matter what. So I congratulated her. I told her job, Well done. I said, I don’t. I don’t remember the last time the books were balanced. Why? Because that’s her flame. She needed to be recognized for because she was so excited and in her flame, which was totally my wax. You know, five cents, really, like I said, 50 bucks close enough. That’s my marriage. My wife does.


Paul Long: It’s, you know, and for my my content business has done the books and that’s her flame, and she loves it. And man, if you give me, oh, I just, you know, I’m never balance a checkbook in my life. And fortunately, I met her in college, so I didn’t really have to.


Dr. Ivan Misner: All right. Well, we’re done with this interview. You’ve got to go to your honey and you’ve got to give her a big hug. Tell us why you love her and how much you appreciate.


Paul Long: I validate her and tell her how much grateful I am for it all the time. And conversely, I do the her wax. So that is a great analogy.


Dr. Ivan Misner: That makes a good, great relationship now.


Paul Long: Yeah, I’m I’m grateful for it. Kim, I’m grateful for. So two more questions. But first of all, what? It’s the best way for people to reach you.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Well, my blog Iman, which I’ve mentioned several times, all free stuff up there, except for links to my books. It’s all free content and on Facebook, I’m probably more active. I’m on all the social media platforms. So, you know, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, but I’m probably a little more active on on Facebook than any of the others so they can go there and again, even there, it’s mostly content. I’m, you know, I really believe in building a brand by providing content, and every now and then I may pull a quote out of a book and have a link to my book. But I’m not trying to sell people stuff on my on my page. I want them to learn how to network and learn about the things that I’m talking about. So Facebook’s a good one.


Paul Long: And by the way, you know, I’ve been to your blog and wow, yeah, they’re there. Ivan Meisner, It’s


Dr. Ivan Misner: I’ve been blogging twice a week since 2007.


Paul Long: I’d be here. If you’re right up there with Seth Godin.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Oh, Seth, those daily.


Paul Long: Yeah. But I mean, you’re you’re close. You’re close. But but the point is, is that there there is really good. Valid. Thank you. Helpful content on there. I was really impressed with it because, you know, I look at a lot of blogs and I blog and anyway, yours was exceptional. And the new book that,


Dr. Ivan Misner: Well, I have several. I mean, one of my latest books is Who’s in your room? Which is about the people you surround yourself with and infinite giving is a new book that I’ve written about. Givers gain the seven principles of Givers Gain, both of which are available on Amazon and whose ginger room is a whole interview. If you ever want to do an interview on that, it’s about the people that you surround yourself with in life. And and then I’m working on a garage to global, but I’m actually going to have a book out before that. So I have a long ways to go with garage to global.


Paul Long: Ok, so two final questions and these bottom line number one key pieces of advice. So first of all, staying with garage to global for somebody that’s thinking about starting up being, you know, and I consider being self-employed almost like the equivalent of starting a business, maybe just without capital, but or starting a business. What do you think is is especially if I’m starting out, if I’m thinking about that because because you know, what I’m offering is a new way forward getting people to launch themselves in a new direction. What’s your number one piece of advice?


Dr. Ivan Misner: Number one would be do six things a thousand times, but number two would be to remember that people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care and that you really which goes to your y really, you know, it’s important that people know that you’re there to really, truly help them, that you want to help people be successful. I think. You know, we all have people that are in our story. I can tell you stories about people that change my life. And and that’s powerful, but to me, the real question is not who’s who’s in our story, but whose story are we in? Whose life have we changed? Who have we helped in some way? That’s made a difference in their life. It’s not who’s in our story? Whose story are we in?


Paul Long: That’s brilliant. And although you’ve given so much advice on it, the number one mindset thing to keep in mind when you’re networking.


Dr. Ivan Misner: With no working, it would be a VCP and also a concept that I talk about the butterfly effect of networking, and it’s important to differentiate between mindset and skill set. When people talk about networking, they mostly talk about skill set like the twenty four seven thirty follow up system, the gains exchange. Those are skill set, but mindset is critical. If you don’t have the right mindset, you’re not. You’re not going have the chance to do the skill set stuff. So VCP and the butterfly effect of networking butterfly effect is part of Chaos Theory, which is a division of mathematics, which talks about the flapping of the wings of a butterfly and how the flapping of the wings of a butterfly may change some minute thing in the environment that changes something that changes something that changes something that changes the weather and the butterfly effect of networking is very similar. You, we oftentimes meet people and we’re just looking for somebody that can do something for us. And I’m here to tell you what you want to do is you want to look for people who are good at what they do, build relationships with them because you never know who they know and you never know who they’re going to introduce you to.


Dr. Ivan Misner: I remember the first time I was on Necker Island, where I met Richard Branson. I’m sitting on Necker, I’m writing, I’m typing up an article, a blog that was due that day. I had no idea what I was going to write about. He walks by and he says Necker Island’s his private island. He walks by and he says, Hey, what are you doing? I said, I have a deadline today. He said, Oh, I get deadlines. No problem. He said, we’re going to all be done by the beach and the pool. When you’re done, come on down and hang out with us, you know, have some fun. And if I don’t see it on there sitting next to me at dinner, I’d like to learn more about what you do. And I remember sitting there, Paul going. Dan, how did I get here? How did I get here? We’re a billionaire walks by and says, Hey, you know, come on out and play. And if I don’t see you on the playground, you know, sit next to me in the lunchroom. Let’s talk. And what I did was, I reverse engineered how I got there. And that became my article, by the way, the butterfly effect of networking. It was eight different relationships over two and a half years.


Dr. Ivan Misner: And it went back two and a half years to a solo Preneur Life coach. Who some people wouldn’t give the time of day to because she was, I mean, some, you know, people in a different weight class would say, Yeah, I don’t want to network with that person, but I I took her call. I, you know, she asked for favor. I was happy to do it. I did it. Which led me to meet somebody which led me to meet somebody, which led me to meet somebody, which led me to me, Jack Canfield Chicken Soup for the Soul. It was now a really close friend which led me to meet somebody which led me to get invited to Necker Island. Where I spent the week with Branson just came back from there two weeks ago for my fourth visit. I was invited back a few times and if you go to itemize in your column, you’ll see a blog I did with about him and legacy. So I think the other mindset is the butterfly effect recognized that the contact you have now that if you build relationships will lead to another contact. Another connection and another connection and another connection. And amazing things can happen in your life.


Paul Long: No such thing as coincidence. It’s coincidence. Dr. Meissner, I have taken you over time. I apologize for that, but I just I couldn’t help myself. This has just been absolutely fantastic. So helpful not only to everyone watching this, but to me. So thank you very much.


Dr. Ivan Misner: Thank you. I appreciate you.


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