Income & Jobs

Never before have there been so many new ways to earn an income & find the job that’s right for you. Learn about them & how to get them including how to overcome ageism.

You are currently viewing Over 50: You can get a Job and Earn an Income

Over 50: You can get a Job and Earn an Income

If you’re over 50, you can get a job and earn an income. You can take control.

To do so, you need to know about the New World of Work that can work for you.

You need to take an active role in learning about all of the new and amazing job opportunities that are out there (and how to overcome ageism to get them) and discover the multitude of new ways to earn an income.

Kerry Hannon is here to help you do just that. She recently published “In Control at 50+ – How to Succeed in the New World of Work” in which she presents stunning insights as to:

-Why Older Workers Rock

-Where the jobs are and will be

-Job hunting strategies

-How to take control of your future

-Career advice for women

-Career transitioning…and a whole lot more.

In this New Way Forward interview, Kerry will give you the insight, information and motivation to get a job or earn an income potentially in a whole new way and one that fits your New Way Forward.

Kerry is the Senior Columnist for Yahoo Finance and a leading authority and strategist on career transitions, entrepreneurship, personal finance and retirement.

Kerry is the best-selling and award-winning author of 14 books, including , Great Pajama Jobs: The Complete Guide to Working from Home and  Never Too Old to Get Rich: The Entrepreneur’s Guide to Starting a Business Mid-Life.

Kerry is currently an expert columnist and regular contributor to The New York Times, MarketWatch, Forbes, and is personal finance and entrepreneurship expert on the PBS website

You can connect with Kerry at 

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Transcript: Over 50: You can get a Job and earn an Income

[00:00:00] Helping you find your new way forward to the best years of your life. This is a new Way Forward podcast with Paul Long.


[00:00:08] Realize that this chapter of your life is not a linear chapter. There’s no playbook out there that’s going to tell you you’re going to take this next job and off you go. Because what it is, it’s like a patchwork quilt. You’re going to do something for a little, maybe a couple of years now, maybe not. Maybe you’ll may do a couple of things at the same time. There’s no there’s no one telling you you’ve got to sign up and you’ve got to do this the rest of your life, you know. So open up your eyes and look at the world with a with a sense of wonder about what it is that want you want to get up in the morning to do. And people often think of companies having mission statements, but frankly, you need to have a mission statement. Why do you do what you do?


[00:00:52] There are so many opportunities, possibilities, variations on old themes and brand new things out there for those of us who are over 50 to earn an income. And yet most of us think we’re screwed. Ageism. I got laid off from my job. That job’s never going to exist for me anymore. That may be true, and that may be a blessing because there are more possibilities, more variations, more ways that you can tailor. The way that you earn a living may be whole new ways that fit a new way forward, meaning you enjoy it, you’re fulfilled by it than if ever existed before. And in this interview, I have Kerry Hannon, who more than 99.9999999% of people on the planet Earth knows what the situation is. And she can help you with those new perspectives, those new understandings and the methods to help you discover and find something that you really want to do that fits the lifestyle that you want to have and allows you to earn an income. She just wrought this, wrote this book that does exactly that in control at 50 Plus How to Succeed in the New World of Work.


[00:02:05] And like I say, almost no one could possibly be better at telling you all of this than her because she’s been tracking this kind of thing for 30 years retirement careers, finances for those of us that are over 50. She has written over 14 bestselling and award winning books. She has appeared in most of the major publications New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Forbes Money, US News World Report and so forth. She was with MarketWatch. She is a personal finance columnist for Next Avenue. She’s been on all of the television networks. Now she’s on new way forward. And in this interview, she’s going to give you the insights, the tips, the new ways of thinking to find a profitable new way forward for you. Let’s start with the overview. All of this research, all of this knowledge that you have, what would you share with us as being kind of the new reality when it comes to those of us who are older and not just finding a job, but finding a way to have income and even have it meaningful.


[00:03:12] Well, you know, Paul, I think what the exciting thing about the new world of work coming out of the pandemic is that the workplace was changed profoundly. And it’s not just for this subset of workers, it’s for all workers. It changed profoundly. And some of these things started pre-pandemic, but it was pedal to the metal acceleration coming out of it. So we can talk in depth about the different the five trends I see emerging and that really are taking root and they all benefit older workers.


[00:03:44] Well, let’s go right into it. What are the five trends?


[00:03:48] So the five primary trends I see coming out, we’re number one and I’m just going to tick them off and then we’ll go back and talk about them each separately. Number one, remote work is here to stay, right? Genie is out of the bottle. Number two, career transition is no longer a risk taking adventure. It’s no longer just for the outlier trying to get an encore career or a second act. It is now something that is really part of the culture. The third thing is that entrepreneurship, which you and I have talked about in the past, entrepreneurship for midlife to later career adults is really on the rise, started pre-pandemic, but boom, coming out of it, it’s really emerged as a path for so many people to really do what they love to do and be meeting, right. The fourth thing is this emergence of contract work and that’s something that does have two sides to the coin and I’d like to explore that with you a bit more. But it also employers have found that it’s super easy to hire people on contracts part time, you know, project based work that they can do virtually and not have to pay you benefits. But they’re good things for older workers with that as well. And the final thing is one of my favorites is that lifelong learning is here to stay and it is significant. It’s not only, oh, it’s nice to know that, but it’s that, yeah, this is really hard core stuff that you can learn. You need to learn to stay relevant, to stay part of the working world or even in the world. If you’re working as a volunteer, you need these skills and you can’t sit back and just coast along if you want to be part of the world these days. So coming out of the new world of work, I think the ability to learn virtual learning took off during the pandemic, and it’s really good stuff.


[00:05:43] All right. Well, let’s let’s circle right back into it. And I hope people take. So let’s go let’s go to number one.


[00:05:50] So number one is remote work is here to stay. And what I love about remote work, of course, previously it was Oh yeah, don’t almost beg your boss to let you work from home or to let you work remotely in some way. And there was this feeling that maybe you weren’t really working, you know, if you weren’t where they can keep an eye on you. That was just special circumstances. Younger workers started asking for this even before the pandemic, and employers were starting to scramble. How could they accommodate them? Because they were digital natives. They get it. They understood that they could work from almost anywhere. For now, we’re talking white collar jobs, right? This is the kind of work that you really don’t need to be sitting in an open office for. You can sit in your own little office and do that right at home. So I think that that it started to emerge because of the pandemic. We all had to do this. And employers figured out that, oh, my gosh, yeah, it really can work. And it’s a cost saver for them. Why I love it for older workers. Is that a it goes a long way to fighting ageism, right? Because when you’re not in the office standing right next to somebody who maybe is 20 or 30 years younger than you, you know, Paul, it’s subliminal. It’s it’s not that someone saying that you’re old or they’re getting this impression that maybe they’re not going to give you this this plum assignment because of the way you look.


[00:07:14] But there’s something there that may that happens in the workplace, the dynamic of just being front and center in a book, being judged by its cover. So when you’re remote, you are judged by your performance and your productivity. And these are the things that matter. Number two, for remote work, for ageism, fighting back is, you know, I find a lot of people say they’re going to work beyond 65. Oh, yes, I’m going to work longer. But in fact, they retire earlier and often. That’s because of a health issue. Now, if you’re working remotely and you have a mobility issue, perhaps that you can by getting rid of that commute, man, can that be a great opportunity for you to be able to continue to work? Being able to work virtually opens up the door to global employers that you might be able to do work for. And if you don’t have to go to an office space, that may be not set up for you, you know, ergonomically correct. Or, you know, the employer hasn’t been able to make the accommodations for whatever your mobility issue might be. This can be amazing. So I really love the opportunity that remote work offers older workers to stay in the workplace and do great work. I mean, really, these are excellent jobs that are out there and there’s many opportunities at this point.


[00:08:34] The second piece that I really see coming out of the pandemic, as is this whole notion of career transition. So the workplace has been profoundly changed by the pandemic, and that’s what we’re writing about in In Control at 50 plus. And what happens is career transition. It evolved in a way that I used to write. I wrote about this all the time. I wrote a book called What’s Next? Follow Your Passion and Find Your Dream Job. And I talked about people who had done something for 20, 30 years and they shifted to do something completely different, you know, Navy captain to manager of a circus. I mean, I mean, they’re just crazy stuff. And they were fun and wonderful. But those were people that people would say, wow, they are so brave. Imagine doing that. And today, because we went home, because we had time and we were frankly afraid, a lot of us were fearful, not understanding what the virus was, losing people around us who we loved to the virus and not understanding what was shifting, what was going on. And so and then we were with family, right? We started to treasure these relationships and we also maybe got a little burned out with work and a little frustrated with work. And we thought, oh, jeepers, you know what really matters to me? What do I want to be doing at this stage in my life and what matters to me? What really, truly so was this sort of inner cry, this soul searching that sort of came it bubbled up in many, many people.


[00:10:05] And workers over 50 said, you know what, I am going to take control of the kind of work I do. I’ve always wanted to do this. And if they were laid off or they took an early retirement package, perhaps they thought, let me think about ways I can redeploy my skills into a field that or a nonprofit that really has a mission. I care about that I want to add value to. And so I love that. I just think it’s so fabulous. And we see a lot. And when I just talk about returning to work retirees, a lot of people did take early retirement during the pandemic. But from a year ago to today, 3.2% of workers who retired early or retired are now back in the workplace. And that’s a statistic that an economist, too, I think is really terrific. Nick Bunker at Indy gave to me recently. It was his most recent numbers, and that’s significant. Paul People had a chance to think about it and they’re shifting into new areas. The third thing is entrepreneurship. And you and I love entrepreneurship, right? And the Kauffman Foundation identified midlife to older adults moving into entrepreneurship in big numbers pre-pandemic.


[00:11:22] But the changing world of work coming out of the pandemic shows us that even more people. So maybe these are some of our career transitions, too, but these are people who said, you know what, I’m going to be my own boss. I’m not getting back in there. I don’t want to deal with the rejection of trying to get through the I application systems where you’re screened out for all kinds of things. I just want to do work. I’ve always wanted to do this and let me see if I can make that happen for myself. So I see. Now I’m not talking starting the next Uber. These are microbusinesses. These are businesses that people are launching, you know, under a couple thousand dollars maximum. And this is often just getting up a great website and starting some marketing getting. And the beauty of it all is because of the pandemic and technology has so exploded in the workforce for virtual workers, you don’t have to hire full time employees to help you. You can hire a virtual bookkeeper to zip in once a month and help you, or a virtual marketing person who can help you with social media marketing, which we know is critical these days for many businesses, but other kinds of personal assistant, whatever it might be to help you with. So that opens up the door for entrepreneurship.


[00:12:38] And before you before you go to the next one, too, I want to make a distinction that’s really helpful. So I’m engaged with Rick Darian, who wrote The Ageless Entrepreneur and in this Center for Ageless Entrepreneur ship. And there’s a distinction of self employed being an entrepreneur. So that’s to support your point that you brought up that I think is really good, that an entrepreneurship doesn’t mean a brick and mortar, it doesn’t mean hundreds or millions, hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars of investment. I’ve been an entrepreneur for 33 years. Being self employed, just having my own endeavor so that you’re right. That’s a really important distinction we need to bring awareness to.


[00:13:19] I love that. And it might not even be one single product or it’s usually a service, but it doesn’t have to be. You can have like if you’re a writer, you can be a contract writer and write for lots of different clients. And that’s running your own business, right? Or a consultant. It’s the same idea. These are sort of really taking control of your career and your the way you earn and the amount of time you want to put into it. The key ingredient, I think for many workers over 50, that being in the time of the pandemic when we had that soul searching thing is it’s always been important. But more so than ever, Paul, is flexibility. Everybody wants flexibility in their working life and they want autonomy. They want to be treated like grown ups. So, yeah, you know what? I don’t need to look at you to know that you’re doing your job or I, you know, you have the flexibility to start your own business and say, you know what, I’m I’m going to I’ll work from 6 to 10 each day or, you know, whatever it is that fits into your lifestyle. It doesn’t have to be this huge blown out thing. It can start in baby steps. It can be. I always we both know entrepreneurship is is a process, right? It’s not something that you just say, oh, I’m going to get it.


[00:14:31] I’m here. You know, it’s sitting down and saying, Why me? Why now? Why this product or service? And you have to be clear eyed about it. What is there a market for what you want to do and who are your potential clients? And this takes time. It takes time to add the skills you might need or the certifications you might need. And you know this part the best because you do it well is research, you know, talking to other people in the field. What’s going on? Where do you see opportunity? What, where how could what I do fit into what’s happening in the industry at large? So there’s all kinds of steps we need to take in order to become an entrepreneur. But I see that as a huge, huge step forward right now, particularly for older workers. And we can talk later. But financial fitness is a key part of being able to succeed doing that. Not everyone is hardwired for it, so you have to really be honest with yourself. The next facet that I talk about in the book as in the new world of work emerging out of the pandemic, one of the big trends is contract jobs. And again, I think it’s fantastic that employers are sort of realizing that they can get a virtual workforce that doesn’t need to pay benefits, too.


[00:15:46] And that’s where the red flag is. Right. So if you are say you’re a worker between 50 and 65, well, you know what? You probably want an employer that’s going to offer you some benefits. You know, you might want that health employer provided health care or an employer provided retirement plan. Of course, you can do these things on your own. I’ve done that for years. But the fact is a lot of people, it’s really something they want. And I think the opportunity to have contract work, you have to be clear eyed again. I like that expression because you have to be honest about what it is you’re looking for in work. If you want project based flexibility part time. This is fabulous and there’s so many opportunities out there now to use your skill set to stay on the job. And if you’re thinking about, yeah, I actually would like to back in to do something full time again with one employer or I would like to start my own business. It’s a great way to keep your resume alive and to keep networking and to stay current with your field is by doing these contract jobs. And there’s really great ones. There’s great job boards to look at, but you can go to the company or nonprofit where you would like.


[00:16:59] Were you really? I always think it’s about where do you want to work? Not who wants to hire you. So if you turn it around and say, Where would I like to work? And Do they have some contract opportunities available? Look on their job boards right there. And again, you and I can talk about this more. It’s it’s who you know, right? This is that’s the networking. This is a big piece of it. And the final thing truly is education. And I’d like to lifelong education in the emergence of virtual learning through the pandemic is one of the big workplace trends. And it is something that, again, had started bubbling up with sort of the Corsairs and edX and some of these great platforms to get us into some of the best universities in the country offering free content or not expensive courses online. But now it’s even more intense. We’ve got to get set up as there and and other opportunities where you can learn specific things. You don’t get a full cert, but you want to learn how to be better with Excel or you want to understand. Maybe it’s even as simple as how to communicate on Slack or Google Docs, you know? But it’s just keeping your tech skills a little sharper.


[00:18:10] That that is one. Hell of a list. And I want to talk about how he really is. I want to circle back on two things. One, the lifelong learning, which is so critical, and those of us who are older, we’ve still got this mindset of the way it used to be, where you went to college, maybe you learned a few things, but that was it. And now it really is perpetual learning. And very often what the certificates that you have are vastly more important than the degree that you have, as well as the experience of things of that sort. So the value proposition is much higher. And I’ve heard of situations and in fact somebody did kind of an informal just contacted a whole bunch of HR hiring managers and it was kind of about ageism. And they and and what I was what I was stunned by is that so many of them said, I’m not being ageist. I’ve got older candidates who are coming to me and they’re out of touch. They’re out of date. I look at what their skill sets are, what their certifications are. I look at how prepared they are to play in the sandbox with a diverse, multigenerational workforce. That’s the issue. And so I think that lifelong learning thing is very pervasive. It goes into a lot of areas and it’s kind of up to us to be able to, in a job interview reflect that, you know, we’re up to speed, we’re going to work well, we’re going to be a good part of the dynamic, dynamic. And our skill sets are just showing that I’m re certifying myself for a learning I think is a gargantuan plus to having an opportunity to get that gig or job.


[00:19:48] I think it’s critical, Paul, and that’s really well said. That is exactly what matters. And employers want to hire someone who they don’t have to train or retrain or all of those things. And especially right now, right now, there are two jobs open for every unemployed worker. I mean, there are so many jobs available and employers are having trouble finding the skilled, someone who’s qualified. And it might sound like it’s ages, but what you said is it’s actually kind of true. And if you have stayed up to date and current in your field and what you’re doing, trust me, they want you. Now, I don’t have the hard numbers on this, but I can give you 12 examples, probably just off the top of my head. And I’m one of them of someone who is what’s considered a we consider older, experienced workers who found jobs like that because I think employers hired them. I wasn’t even looking right, but found them because they need somebody who can come in and start the job right now and do the job. And they knew that they could do the job today. They didn’t have to train them. They weren’t worried that they were going to jump job somewhere else. Because one other thing coming out of the pandemic is younger workers are the globe is their marketplace. So they have figured out that, you know what? And especially if they onboarded remotely, they don’t have a heck of a lot of loyalty to anybody, nor do they have a great cohort of pals that they started work with in colleagues in an office.


[00:21:19] They don’t if they get a better offer, they feel they’re valued somewhere else or they’re learning something really cool at another employer, they’re out of there. So we’re seeing a lot of more mobility from the younger job candidate moving around more so an employer wants somebody says, hey, you know what, you can do the job today. I’m not going to lose you overnight. And and I feel comfortable because you’re filling my need today. And I got to tell you, I think that’s why Yahoo! Finance hired me, because they had a need for a really great writer and reporter and columnist and someone who understood the space and they’re like, Would you come work for us? So I was like, I guess so. But it’s worked out beautifully and I feel totally valued. In a way like I sell words for a living. Right. This is a tough way to make money these days because the onset of a lot of free content, online people not paying writers anything, which started with the Huffington Post, but moved forward to many people who don’t value content. And readers don’t understand the delineation by somebody who’s an expert and somebody who’s who’s a scam or selling you something. So what’s so fun is that like, wow. And I know a ton of these examples right now of people over I’m I’m talking over 60. Right. So I say there is hope for us, but it goes back to what you just said, Paul. You got to have your skill sharp. You’ve got to be ready to do it, you know?


[00:22:46] Yeah. And you even kind of touched on it there, too. That just one real quick thing about, you know, contract working, freelancing, a.k.a. gig working, of which I like to characterize. I feel for accuracy. You know, they’re essentially two levels. There’s the Uber level, you know, because that’s where a lot of people think a gig worker is. And that’s great, by the way. That’s wonderful. I know people who do it and love it of all ages. But then there’s the professional gig workers. So the contract worker, whether it’s a graphic artist, whether it’s a project manager, whether it’s an accountant, whatever those skills are. And the numbers I’ve seen is that older and everybody characterizes that differently, 50 and above 60 a baby boomers, or it’s almost even with younger people. In other words, those of us who are over 50 are a huge and growing percentage of people who are being hired as contractors and freelancers and project based contributors. Correct. Is that your take on things?


[00:23:50] Oh, that’s absolutely true. And I should clarify, too, that even though my book, I think the things in In Control at 50 plus are applicable, many of the lessons for all workers and all ages even. But but I do focus on this skill based employee, somebody who’s not a gig worker necessarily doing that kind of like an Uber. Like I said, those are great being an Uber driver or whatever it is, that’s fantastic and a way to make money. But I’m mostly focusing on who you just talked about, people who want to be a consultant or a writer or a graphic designer, those kinds of things.


[00:24:29] Let’s get into the why, because you you touch on this and you have touched on this, you’re aware of it. Because what we’ve been really talking about is the isolated fact that that so many people are becoming entrepreneurs or gig workers or finding a job. Because, you know, we know the statistics of how few people have enough or any retirement savings. And with an extended lifespan and health span, how am I if you know, we need the money? You know, my big contention is, okay, well, if you need to pivot, if you need out of desire or necessity to to something else, why not do it towards something that you feel? It’s exciting. It’s maybe that thing you’ve always wanted to do, or it’s something other than what you’ve been doing, or it’s something you can be passionate and fulfilled about or whatever. I mean, in other words, it’s like as long as I got to earn some money. I want to do it in a way that I love. It’s what I want and need, even in terms of my lifestyle. I think some people are like, Oh, yeah, right. You know, I’ll wish upon a star, you know? You know, how likely is that? And what do I do from your perspective? Good question.


[00:25:44] I think it’s super possible. It’s really up to you if you want to be lazy and just, you know, phone it in, fine. But you’re probably not going to be able to replicate your old job if you’ve stepped out of the workplace anyway or if you were laid off during the pandemic or took an early retirement. Things are changing so quickly. But what you can do, and I think this is critical for everyone one, realize that this chapter of your life is not a linear chapter. There’s no playbook out there that’s going to tell you you’re going to take this next job and off you go. Because what it is, it’s like a patchwork quilt. You’re going to do something for a little, maybe a couple of years. Not, maybe not. Maybe you’ll may do a couple of things at the same time. There’s no there’s no no one telling you you’ve got to sign up and you’ve got to do this the rest of your life, you know. So open up your eyes and look at the world with a with a sense of wonder about what it is that you want to get up in the morning to do. And people often think of companies having mission statements, but frankly, you need to have a mission statement. Why do you do what you do? Why? And Simon Sinek is one of these great speakers that you’ve probably heard.


[00:26:56] He talks about. He has a whole book about this, you know, but really, what is it that is your reason for being and what at this stage of life and it can be when I was 25 and someone said, what’s the mission of what’s your mission or what’s the mission of the company you work for? I was like, I don’t care. I just want to get paid and have fun. And but now it really does matter. And, you know, my mission statement is I will only do work that I feel impacts an individual’s life in a positive way, that I can make somebody more financially secure, whether they’re taking control of their retirement planning, their retirement savings, whether they’re getting their finances in order, whether they’re finding a job that they really, really love. So these are and Paul, I know you have a mission statement. It is critical that we do this. And it’s it’s a stepping stone, because once you start to visualize what it is and why it is, it can become a reality. It can happen. But if you don’t take the time to make that visual image for yourself and that heart impression, and I know that sounds new agey, but it’s really, really true. It is an inner motivation and you put the word out, it comes back to you.


[00:28:04] It honestly does, but it takes you focusing on what that is and talking to a lot of people and reaching out to people around you. Invitations are unexpected. You come when you least expect something. And can I? I wanted to say a quick little story that I have in the book about this. There was a gentleman I interviewed who got laid off from his job in his fifties as a sales person. And he was really a great salesman and he could not get another job in sales. He suspects it was ageism, and I suspect he’s correct. But he’s really loves a sale. I mean, he just is a sailor down in his whole life. So he started to just go down to Florida, to Longboat Key for the winter and take a job teaching sailing. And while he’s doing that, he there’s an executive on his that he’s training he’s teaching some guys signed up for classes at that at the sailing school. And it turns out this executive in New Jersey had a job open at his company. Right, for project manager. And he said you should apply for it. And and the sailing instructor, the guy I interviewed, he said, are you kidding me? I don’t have one certification.


[00:29:10] I’ve never worked as a project manager. And they got stopped right there. He said, You know what? You’re a great sailor. You know how to get from A to B with all, no matter what happens in between, right? The weather changes. This happens. That happens. He said, I know you can you can do this. That is what you are. You are, you are. You know how to get to A to B. And you know what? This guy applied for the job. Yeah, he knew the boss, right? But he got the job and they can talk sailing. But he also is been promoted three times. I mean, he is terrific at his job. And this is the kind of thing is what is he really? So we need to tease out in ourselves. Paul is so we have a ho what kind of work do I want to do? But those little clues about what you might be good at that you forgot and that you’re really good at come from our hobbies, what our hobbies can show us about, what talents and skills we have that we take for granted. They can come from. If you think back at the first job or the second job you ever had, it cracks me up when I think about that. Look, wait, what was your first job, Paul?


[00:30:16] It not counting high school, the television news guy.


[00:30:20] Okay. Do you remember it as being just like there’s something about it? You loved that.


[00:30:24] Oh, absolutely. It absolutely. And that first job was one of the hardest, most challenging, because I had to shoot and edit stuff and do four stories a day. And what I learned then is, like, fundamentally helps me every single day in what I do and.


[00:30:41] You know how to multitask and you get high off of having even though it seems like, oh, my God, it’s overwhelming like you. We spoke earlier today and you’re like, I’m spending a lot of plates. But that’s what turns you on. That’s what energizes you, that brings meaning to your life is, Oh, you wouldn’t want it any other way in that first job. If you look back at that, you know, that’s what I did love about that job for me. I was selling Avon, right? I was going door to door. Trust me, I was terrified because I was very shy. And you wouldn’t do that today. But every time I made that human connection with somebody, somebody who actually would talk to me, I was like, Wow, that was really fun. I just met a new person and I’d get high off of that. Well, that’s something that I care. I laugh every time I think about that job. It was so ridiculous. But at the same time I smile because I learned something about myself that I cared about making that human connection. That is something. So in my work I do now, I talk to a lot of people, I interview people, I tell people’s stories. Is that a gift? I mean, my gosh, they give me this gift of telling me their story and I’ve made this human connection and I’ve learned something new.


[00:31:47] So to me, that was a clue to what I still love to do about work today. So I tell people, think about your job, think about your hobbies and thinking about your personal life, what goes on in your home that are keys to your skills and the kind of work that actually brings me to your life. And during the pandemic, I took care of my 91 year old mom with dementia and I was hanging by a thread. It was really hard and I was not trained to do this, but I learned a lot about myself. I learned that I have a great deal of patience, that I have a great deal of empathy. And I was her financial manager. I was her project manager in a way, and I was coordinating all kinds of things, and I was also her musical director. We did a lot of singing, you know. You know, she absolutely loves The Sound of Music. So I was singing Edelweiss and Climb Every Mountain. And, you know, these are my favorite things at the top of my lungs with her. And it’s so much fun.


[00:32:51] You know, you’ve you’ve hit on a couple of really important things. I mean, one of them a question that I had regarding a chapter that you you have taken control of your future, which is a lot about what you’ve been talking about, which is self assessment. And I want to set you off with two angles. One is, is that what you were talking about? And I think this is brilliant and it’s something I believe in. Is it deconstructing, if you will? You know what you’re good at what you like doing. It’s really looking at it, not in the context of what you’ve been doing or or how you label yourself as a salesperson or whatever, but what those aspects are to therefore open yourself up to other possibilities. And by the way. You mentioned Simon Sinek. A great starting place is that he has the Golden Circle, which I think is absolutely brilliant, that on the outside of this Golden Circle are two rings. One is. What and how. And that’s what we usually focus on. What am I doing? What is my business, and how am I going to do it? But at the center where few people go and where you can go with your life is why? Why do I want to do this? Why do I want it? And that about ourselves to help do this? So I’ve thrown you a lot of very deep, thoughtful things, but I’d like to get your response from it.


[00:34:30] Yeah, well, Paul is it’s so hard, right, to peel back those layers. People, sometimes you just don’t want to go there, right? Because it can be raw. It can it can touch a nerve. It can trigger memories of things, good and bad, that bittersweet. And people often just want to keep plowing forward. We’ve been trained that, you know, you stay you stay in your lane, you don’t step out of it. This is you know, and honestly, this is a time in life. And again, I’ll go back to the pandemic people, you know, the fear of of death, right? The fear of death and of losing people we loved and not being with them. But but there is a sense of mortality and a sense of a finite period of time and even. More than ever. I think it pushed people to start considering why I am doing this when I might not have that much time or why am I not? Even if if you have for me caring for my mom, I’m like, I got to get my work done. I got to do this. But then I thought, Why am I caring for. Why am I doing this? And I was doing it for all the right reasons, taking care of mom. And I’m so grateful I did that. But I also took the time to write about it and write down. So often we take some time and write. It sounds like, again, a lot of people tell people to do this, but keeping a journal, whether it’s on your computer or I like handwritten things. I’m old fashioned. I like to actually write it down and it feels good, but write these things down.


[00:35:53] And when thoughts occur to you, it reminds you sometimes when we don’t even remember what we’re super good at. Go back and look at those old performance reviews. They’re sticking around somewhere in your files and they’ll remind you of, like, you know, yeah, that was something I’ve always been good at, and I forgot about that. Maybe I should see if there’s a way I can use that skill more, or I can market myself with that, because maybe it means brushing up your education a bit like that. But. But I do. It’s the pulling yourself apart and being willing to do that and willing to sit with it a little bit and also bounce it across other people, you know? What do you think I’m good at? What? What often other people see us in a different light and I or they see stuff in us that we take for granted. I love recommending career coaches or life coaches. Not that it’s and the reason why I do that is that if you can find somebody who’s great, they can give you this unbiased look at you. There’s somebody who really hasn’t known you before and they come with a blank slate. When they look at you, they see you as a really cool entity. And so they can and I see the confidence of people I know who work with coaches. Their confidence just it just grows and and it makes them and then when they do find someone, they get in for an interview that that exudes from them. And hiring manager might not know what that is, but it’s let’s call that confidence. And again, one other word I would I always say this is important for all of us looking for work.


[00:37:23] And if you don’t have this ingredient, really work at getting it, you need to be curious. You need to be curious about the world around you, whether it’s related to work or not. But but I have this visual image I got. Well, first of all, the word curious makes it it’s just brilliant because it indicates to someone that you’re interested in learning that you’re open to new things that you you want to push forward. So that’s a subliminal message that comes from that word. And and you say it, mean it. Right? But I think of this image. I got a puppy during the pandemic and she and it’s really hard. I forgot how hard it is to have a puppy, a yellow lab. But I’m telling you, Paul, she would look at a butterfly for the first time as if it was the most extraordinary thing in the world. Or a drop of water coming off the water pipe or the roof after the rainstorm and just cock her head and oh, my God. And I thought I kind of remember to see the wonder in the world again. And those moments of of her curiosity about what is that? How can I and I think to myself, I got to put that back in my life. I got to think about when I’m out there, what am I curious about? So that’s that’s just sort of a big example of that sort of attitude. And a lot of people get that from their kids or their grandkids, but for me, it was my dog.


[00:38:37] Well, and I also want to validate a couple of things that you said very strongly do. So first of all, when you talk about journaling and writing Tim Ferriss Tools of Titans and his mentors book, where he looked at all of these incredibly successful people on all kinds of walks of life. And he said one of the most consistent things that he found amongst everyone and I’ve heard this from other sources, is that they journal they journal like first thing in the morning, they just write down anything and then also writing down goals and thoughts and things of that sort. And when you say old fashioned studies have shown that when you write, you activate. It’s the reticular activation system in your brain, which means you retain it more. And they actually show that there’s a highly if you write down your goals, there’s a higher likelihood of of you achieving that. But the other big thing is that engagement, when you’re talking about having a mentor, when having a mastermind, someone who, you know, Robert Laura, who founded the Retirement Coaches Association, as such, we mastermind we did on Tuesday morning where he shares with me his stuff and I share with him my stuff. And you get so much out of it. I have a couple of other mastermind pals. You get so much out of it, not just from what you say. Yeah, man, I’m trying to do this. And and they’re in a position because they aren’t close to you, like a colleague or a family member to to hold you accountable.


[00:40:08] Which is the other thing. And the. On a bill of buddy, you know, somebody where you say, I’m going to have this done by the end of the month and since you told that to them. So those those are very, very powerful tools. So there is there is so much to cover. So therefore, I highly recommend you just get the book because I mean, the chapters say it all. We’ve been talking about the new world of work, why older workers rock, where the jobs are and where they’ll be taking control of your future, which we’ve been talking about here now. Job hunting strategies, show time mean. How do I launch? How do I get into gear? Remote work, career transition, being your own boss, career advice for women over 50 and how learning is fundamental. So I mean, there’s no need to cover it all here in this. I would just say get the book and there’ll be links in the show notes or social posts or whatever. Let me let me go over a couple of things here. First of all. This is all daunting, nevertheless. Change comes hard or wired against it. What if? What about fear? Everything else. But you have a mantra. That you offer in the book that I really liked, like before you go on stage or whatever. But it’s a, it’s maybe a good mantra for us when we undergo this change in transition. You share that?


[00:41:34] Well, you know, I just say to myself. Be the best I can. Let me be the best that I can right now. It doesn’t mean I’m going to be perfect, but somehow that reassures me. Just let me do the best that I can. And and you know what? It seems to work out.


[00:41:55] But as it applies to this, we may not we may be going in untested waters or I’m not quite sure if I can pull this off or what I can pull off. But that seems comforting to just say, hey, give it your best shot and the best things in life don’t come easy.


[00:42:14] Yeah, and you just kind of let it go if you’re just going to you’re not going to try to push it just there. The other quickly, though, Paul, can I tell you that when you mentioned about your mastermind group, I talk in the book a lot about people also. That’s a great idea. You need to put a small group of people together, whether your job seeking or whether you’re a small group of entrepreneurs. If you can just link up with some other people and because we can do it virtually, they don’t have to be in your neighborhood that set up weekly meetings or monthly meetings or twice a month that you do keep yourself accountable, that you have somebody in that same situation because your family and friends want to be supportive and help you, but frankly, they get sick of it. So it’s better to have somebody who is marching that march that you are that you can say, hey, you should talk to this person or that person or I had that problem or here’s a great attorney or who, you know, whatever it is. But also, how did you do on that, what you said you were going to do? Did that work out? You know, and so I think it’s really important that we have we grow, we get strength from others. So if we’re not going into an office per se or you don’t, this is one way to build your own support group.


[00:43:17] Yeah. And by the way, I’m such a believer in it that one part of my new way forward launch one section is that what we’ll be launching soon is a community platform that’s used by the mighty networks, which is very good, which allows people to join and connect, create their own groups, go off on their own, be a part of whatever else, because whatever you’re going through, someone else has already gone through it and or is going through it now. And so at the very least, which is huge, it can be that mastermind person that you can just share with you to hear yourself verbalize something, to explain it to another person, get you out of this and that into that. And then the second thing is, is that you’ve got people I can help you with that. You can help me with that. And when you often help you get more out of it, what’s that?


[00:44:10] We all like to help each other people. It’s an it’s a human nature to want to have a community and to want to share with each other and to support each other. It really is a basic human characteristic and I think it’s true. One other. Can I share one other quick story?


[00:44:25] Oh, are you kidding, please?


[00:44:27] I love it. There’s one in it. This is going to going to tie back to education. I talk a lot about things like resilience and so forth in the book and the power of education and virtual learning as a tool for resilience and many things, because we actually older workers did so great during the pandemic compared to younger workers in terms of being resilient because we’ve been through stuff, we weren’t so rattled mentally by the whole thing. But here’s the story I want to tell you. I interviewed Simon Sinek for The New York Times, and I have this story in the book. We were talking about how education and learning is just critical, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with the work you’re going to do. It’s just the process of learning something new. And when you start learning something new, your whole brain changes your whole mindset. You approach things differently. You see the world differently. Simon told me this story. He said he loves dance, right? And so he’s always been loved to dance and going to to performances and so forth. And his friend said to him, you know, you really should take a dance class. And he’s like, I’m not going to take a dance class. And they’re like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you really should take a dance class. And he’s like, Well, like, he has a lot of time that this guy’s super busy, right? He’s like, Yeah, okay.


[00:45:45] So he took a ballet class and dancing and and ballet and he said he felt a little foolish at times, but he did. And you know what? He told me that it’s incredible that the things he learned in that class suddenly when he’s speaking before an audience in his work, he’s moving across the stage differently. He’s carrying his body in a more in a way that’s more relaxed and more comfortable for him, but also more open to his audience. And he said there’s so many nuances that he learned from that dance class that translated to his working world that you would never have suspected that. So I want people to think about that when you consider lifelong learning in the sheer importance of learning new things and being a beginner again and having to go back and have. It’s kind of like having a setback, right? You have to start at the beginning in your greenhorn and oh, my gosh, you’re not the expert. And then all of a sudden you grow and and then you say, oh, how does this this might apply over here? But he said it started all of a sudden, naturally, it was helping him and his other work and he hadn’t planned on that. He didn’t even try to make it happen. It just did.


[00:46:58] That’s a that’s an incredible story. That’s incredible story. And so. What’s your number one takeaway from this book? If there was one thing somebody watching this who will hopefully get it and read it. What do you want them to know?


[00:47:15] I want them to be open to invitations. Just open up your mind. Just be open to the unexpected invitation that there’s a saying. You’re just one decision away from changing the rest of your life. Well, maybe it’s just one invitation away. Just be open to new ideas and new invitations. Don’t be stuck in a moment.


[00:47:37] That is wonderful. Kerry, what what is the best way for people to get in touch with you?


[00:47:42] Oh, fabulous. My website is Kerry Hannon. K e r y h a and on. And I’m on Twitter at Kerry Hannon. So just add k, e, r, y and on. I’m on LinkedIn. I love making new friends, new connections. Check me out on Yahoo! Finance. I’m a senior columnist there. You can Google Kerry Hannon and Yahoo! Finance and boom, you’ll get all my columns. So that’s fun. So there’s lots of ways to find me and I really look forward to hearing from anyone who’s who’s watching your show. And Paul, you are fabulous. These are really important issues that everyone needs to be paying attention to. And you’re you’re shining the light well.


[00:48:24] Shining the light on what you’re working with. And I tell you, I just did my admire your knowledge and your skill and your insight to it. So, Kerry, as always, thanks and gee, look forward to the next book. Will that be out like in another week or two? Here’s Oprah.


[00:48:42] The next one. I’ll have to write about my dog, you know.


[00:48:46] I’ll look forward to it anyway. Carrie, thank you so much.


[00:48:50] Take care, Paul. Thank you.


[00:48:52] If you like this, there’s a lot more on YouTube. Also there’s even more on new way forward. That’s new way FWB dot com. There you can subscribe you’ll get a free newsletter regularly, you’ll get special updates and you’ll get a free download to help you step by step get going on your new way forward.


[00:49:14] You’ve been listening to a New Way Forward podcast with.


[00:49:17] Your host, Paul Long.