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Ten Conversations for a Great Relationship When You Get Older

Here are the ten conversations for a great relationship when you get older.

These are especially critical when there is a major life change such as changing careers, retiring, or joining the Great Resignation. These are major life changes and both partners need to be aligned with their new life as well as the changes that occur as we get older.

In this New Way Forward interview, author, speaker, and therapist Dorian Mintzer offers up the critical conversations you need to have with those closest to you (especially a spouse/partner) to assure your relationships stay strong and evolve in your new reality. This list of ten conversations comes from the book she co-authored with Roberta Taylor, “Couple’s Retirement Puzzle – 10 Must-Have Conversations for Creating an Amazing New Life Together.”

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Podcast Transcript: Ten Conversations for a Great Relationship When You Get Older

Dorian Mintzer: [00:00:00] Retirement used to be retiring from work and basically kind of retiring from life. Actually, some people talk about a second adulthood and talk about middle age being more now fifty-five to seventy-five. It can be hard enough for an individual to figure out, how do I want to live this next phase of my life? But I think it’s even more complicated if you’re in a relationship. Each of you may have different leads, interests, values, priorities, energy levels, ages, and it can be just much more complicated because you want to think about what’s important and what’s the vision that you have for yourself. But also if you’re in a relationship. What’s the vision that your partner has?


Paul Long: [00:00:50] Lack of communication? Lack of alignment in a close relationship is probably the biggest reason why those relationships end up failing. And here’s a case in point. Mature relationships couples who have been together for decades and they’re in that so-called retirement phase of life, whether they’re retiring or not, and they’re not prepared, they’re not aligned. They haven’t had the conversations. They need to have to figure things out and also to get a line for what one or both of them are going to do. And by the way. Over the last 30 years, the divorce rate amongst those people who are of retirement age has doubled. Here’s the solution. My interview guest today is Dorian Mercer, now in the first place in terms of retirement coaching and viewing retirement age. You know this second half of life entirely differently. She is one of the top people in the field, one of the most highly regarded authors, speakers, coaches, therapists. And with this conversation thing, she co-wrote a book with Roberta Taylor called the couple’s retirement puzzle 10 must have conversations for creating an amazing new life together. And in this interview, we’re going to go through each one of those conversations. But to start, we’re going to put this phase of life, the so-called retirement phase of life. We got to look at it differently than you might assume or presume or has been typical to kind of help give us the foundation for going through all of these 10 conversations.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:02:32] It is true. Retirement is very much changing, and it’s not the retirement that our parents had. And part of that is people are living longer, you know, back in like my parents’ generation. The exception was that people lived to be in their eighties or longer. Now the expectation is that people are going to live into their eighties or longer. Not everybody does, but that is more the expectation. Actually, age eighty five and older is the fastest growing segment of our population, and they’re more and more centenarians, centenarians, right people. A hundred and older and kids born today have a 50 50 chance of living into their hundreds. So it’s a changing landscape and a changing world that we have in the twenty first century.


Paul Long: [00:03:23] And it’s not just living longer, but it’s also living healthy and engaged. And so people are seeking more from life than the stereotypical retirement, which is another word for withdrawal.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:03:37] Exactly. I mean, retirement used to be retiring from work and basically kind of retiring from life. And it was kind of the winding down. And, you know, back then, you know, the life expectancy was much shorter. So people retired. And you know, and probably within the next decade died. But now it’s true that the 20, 30, 40 more years and it doesn’t mean more years of being old, old. Actually, some people talk about a second adulthood and talk about middle age being more now fifty five to seventy five. So these are years that can be very vital. It can be productive in the sense of working, or it can be productive in the sense of just feeling vital and perhaps becoming creative in a different way than you hadn’t been before. Never had time to be before. And I always say that it’s it can be hard enough for an individual to figure out how do I want to live this next phase of my life? But I think it’s even more complicated if you’re in a relationship, because in a relationship, each of you may have different leads, interests, values, priorities, energy levels, ages and it can be just much more complex. Located because you want to think about what’s important and what’s the vision that you have for yourself, but also if you’re in a relationship, what’s the vision that your partner has and where do they align or not align? And what are some things you want to do together or apart?


Paul Long: [00:05:20] And that brings us to the crux of this and and and first of all, from your previous interview and for this interview, it really is stunning for all of us to realize that we are approaching this major. You and we plan our child who we plan college, we plan career, we plan family and we get toward retirement. And there are just so many of these ill founded or even wrong assumptions and things that aren’t addressed and thought about. So in the other podcasts that we have on Pro Boomer with you, it is certainly talking about how to start looking and planning and thinking about how to live your life or if you’re in retirement and finding that it’s not worthwhile what you have to do. But this other thing is stunning, and that is is how rare people actually in relationships talk to each other about it, especially ahead of time. And so therefore, your book that you co-wrote with Roberta Taylor called Couple’s Retirement Puzzle 10 must have conversations for creating an amazing new life together, which is just brilliant and should be almost required reading for anybody both in or out of a relationship, even. But I want to start out with before you give us your basic perspective on this. The very first sentence in the foreword from Fred Mandel, who wrote Becoming a life change. Artists have been creative skills to reinvent yourself at any stage of life. But his very first words were the vast majority of people who are about to retire are going to do so with someone else, not meaning a change of an individual in a relationship, but that we change because of retirement. Expand on that, please.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:07:06] Well, I think it’s true that, you know, we’re living longer. There are many, many different kinds of relationships that people have. Some people are married. Some people aren’t married. Same sex, heterosexual companionship, relationships with friends, siblings, adult children in general, unless we’re too isolated, which is not a good thing. We are approaching these retirement years with other people, and so it becomes important to be able to talk to whoever is important in your life. I mean, it could be a spouse, but it may not be. And part of what led to writing this book were that there were studies that started coming out from Fidelity Investment back in 2007, and they do these surveys every two years. And other financial institutions also do them now, too. And they were looking at couples, and it was saying couples aren’t talking about retirement. And so it was at that point that my co-author and I decided, Well, let’s focus on both communication and couples. But we wrote the book in a way, and I think you commented on that, Paul, although it’s called the couple’s retirement puzzle. We wrote it in a way that it’s helpful for individuals, too, because you for everybody, whether you’re in a relationship or not, you need to first puzzle it out for yourself and to think about what’s important to you and what’s your vision. And then talk with whoever significant in your life. So I do think that the book is helpful for couples as well as individuals. And Fred Mandel, in the foreword, actually also said he thought the book should be given to newlyweds because even though newlyweds aren’t thinking about retirement learning, how to communicate together and being able to set goals and have dreams and figure out how to negotiate, what’s important to each of you is important to to learn way back at the beginning.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:09:27] And it might actually help the divorce rate if people were able to communicate better. So that’s part of what influenced the book, and I really like thinking about life as a puzzle. Puzzle is a noun and a verb, and as I just mentioned, one has to puzzle it out and that’s the verb part. But if you think about it that there are all these puzzle pieces of life and they’re not going to fit together perfectly, like a jigsaw puzzle. But they impact each other. So as we wrote the book, we decided that we wanted to use. Excuse me. We wanted to use puzzle as the way of keeping these clusters in different parts of your life. And they’re unique to you. Nobody’s puzzle pieces are exactly the same size and shape. Some are bigger than others. Some are smaller than others, but they impact each other. And I think the two that most impact other choices are finances and health and wellness. Because without figuring out if you have enough to live and not outlive it, that will modify some of the life choices you have in terms of what you can do and where to live. But also your health may impact if you can work or not work what you can do. So those are two big puzzle pieces that I think impact the other ones.


Paul Long: [00:11:03] And so let’s go through these 10. But but I do want to bring up because I think this is interesting and I think and we’ll follow up on this after we go through the 10 is the very next chapter. After you go through your 10 is creating a shared vision and that’s largely what you’re doing here with these. These 10 conversations, correct?


Dorian Mintzer: [00:11:25] Exactly. So the idea is that you think about and even write down what your vision is. And so at the end, with whomever is important in your life, you create a shared vision, which you know where you look at a little of what each of you want and need. And the hope is some will align and some might not. And again, trying to figure out what to do or not do alone or together, and that gets into one of them and those expectations. Sometimes people think, well, we should do everything together and not necessarily good for you, nor is it necessarily what your partner may want to. So these are things to to negotiate. I wanted to just mention before we get into the specifics of the the 10 areas that the first part of the book that I co-wrote focuses on communication. Because what we began discovering both from our own clients as well as focus groups, is that there are a number of reasons that people weren’t talking. One is, people’s lives are just so busy, particularly if one or both are working or you’re raising a family, you know, like finding time. Sometimes people put more time into talking about vacation than they do into thinking about what’s this next stage of life going to be like? Another is not wanting to open up Pandora’s box. There may be this sense that I know we’re going to disagree and I don’t even want to go there. And so people avoid it. Sometimes people just even assume that they know what the other’s thinking. And so they say, Oh, we don’t need to talk about it. And then suddenly, you know, it gets to be the time of retirement and they discover assumptions aren’t necessarily accurate. And I always say assumptions can get you into hot water. And the other is, sometimes people just don’t know how to have some of these difficult conversations. So the whole first part of the book is how to have courageous, difficult and important conversations, how to listen to each other, how to bring difficult things up, how to problem solve, how to negotiate.


Paul Long: [00:13:47] So let’s go into the 10 must have conversations. Number one, if and when and how to retire.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:13:54] And that’s that’s a biggie. I mean, since the concept of retirement is changing and most industries no longer have a mandatory retirement age, it becomes a personal choice. Now there are some industries, as I said, that do have mandatory retirement ages. And you know, that’s a whole different set of things of preparing for it. But the jury’s not out of, you know, if you’re in a relationship and you’re both working, should you retire at the same time or a separate time. Some people say it’s better to retire at the same time and then you’re able to kind of adjust simultaneously. Other people say it’s really better to do it separately. The jury’s not out, and there’s so many variables in relation to it, and I think it becomes important to talk about. There may be different ages. If you’re in a relationship, it may be that, you know, it’s not unusual that a heterosexual relationship that the wife maybe was out of the labor force for a little while when children were younger. If you. Children, and it’s not unusual that a woman might be reaching her prime in her work when her husband’s ready to wind down. And so let it. That would be in a situation where you know they don’t want to retire at the same time or one might have health insurance and want to keep with the health insurance until both of both of the partners are eligible for Medicare. So there’s so many factors and you know, some people are burned out from what they were are doing. Some people love what they’re doing. Some love what they’re doing, but they want to do it in a different way. Maybe phasing out or working part time. And it may be possible. I encourage people always, if you like what you’re doing and you like where you’re working, but you don’t want to do it full time anymore. Nothing to lose. To talk with your employer about, you know, is it possible to make it part time or is it possible to retire from the position you have and then perhaps be able to be a consultant or do some mentoring?


Paul Long: [00:16:17] So the bottom line here is is to. Get together and begin discussing when and then the how is what, what, what it looks like, exactly what we want our life to be like is that what the how is?


Dorian Mintzer: [00:16:31] Yeah, I mean, not complete all of the aspects of the how, but in terms of the timing of retirement, it may be how do we want to do, you know, beginning years if we’re retiring separately, what will it mean if I’m still working in it or not?


Paul Long: [00:16:49] So number two, let’s talk about money finances without fighting. I tell you, that could be a book in and of itself, finances without fighting.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:17:00] And there are ways. And again, some of the communication techniques that are mentioned earlier in the book talk about how to have those money conversations money. I only say money, sex and death in our society are often very complicated issues for people to talk about. And again, it can vary from person to person in relationship to relationship. But money, really people you know, couples are talking about divorcing money is generally a big part of it. Disagreeing about money. We all have money messages from the past and. About how to spend, invest, save money means different things to all of us. And so it’s complicated enough mutual and then it can be very complicated relationship. So it’s important to find ways to talk about money together. And I’m also a firm believer. No matter how much or how little money you have, it is very important to talk to a financial planner. So you have some reality, and it’s not just a number for the sake of a number, but it’s thinking holistically what? What’s the way you want to live? What are the lifestyle options you want? Because that’s going to impact how much money you need for your retirement and it may impact, then again, if how and when to retire. It may be that given the some of the things you want to do during your retirement years, that one or both of you may need to keep working for a while in order to be able to have that money. The dilemma is that we’re finding more and more that in the boomer population, people are not in a good financial situation, so it’s complicated. Finances are very, very complicated, and it finances really do impact a lot, a lot of the other lifestyle choices that you have.


Paul Long: [00:18:59] Number three, changing roles and identities,


Dorian Mintzer: [00:19:03] And that’s another really big one. You know, for many of us, if we worked a good part of our life, our identity is our work. If you’ve been a parent, your identity may be your parent, you know, being a parent or it may be both. But as we approach the pre boomer and boomer years and as you’re beginning to think about changes in working or how you’re working or how much, and also if you’ve had children and if your children are growing and they’re kind of being launched, I think there are a lot of parallels between the empty nest and also retiring from work. It’s very important to think about who am I in different ways? What’s my identity? You know, who am I? In addition to being a parent, who am I in addition to being whatever career or job that you’ve been in, what are other identities that I want to develop for myself? What are things that maybe had to be put on the back burner? So I think, you know, thinking about changing roles and identity is really very important for people. In addition, if one or both aren’t working and you had a way literally of roles and household responsibilities at home, you know, it’s time that you may want to rethink that.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:20:26] If suddenly you’re both home and you felt good about how things were being divided, that’s fine. I don’t usually hear that that’s the case because again, it’s a stereotype. But you know, oftentimes women say that even if they’re working outside of the home, that still more falls on them. I think it’s changing in younger generations. A little, but not so much, I think in the the boomer and beyond population. So it becomes important to think about who’s going to do what you know. And sometimes it’s helpful to think, you know, what are the things you like to do? What are the things you don’t like to do? And sometimes it works out in couples to be able to divide it that way? You know, if finances are always helpful to have, you know, somebody that maybe their expertise is the cleaning or organizing or doing things and you’re helping them have work and it takes some of the pressure off you. But not everybody can afford that. So it becomes important to think about, you know, what are each of you going to do so that there’s not a whole lot of resentment that’s building between the two of you?


Paul Long: [00:21:33] All right. Number four time together and time apart.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:21:37] Another biggie. You know, if you think about it, when people are working, there’s it’s built in unless you’re in a family business and working together or working at home. But in general, you know, you get up, you go to work. Maybe both of you do. And you know, there’s time together and time apart if one or both isn’t working or not working in the same way again, this is an important area to discuss, and assumptions and expectations can really wreak havoc here. I’ve seen situations where one person expects the other is going to want to spend all their time together and the other doesn’t view it that way and wants to have time with other friends or time at the gym, or maybe do an encore career. And it can lead to a lot of disagreement and fights. One couple, as an example, both worked. They had a. Where, you know, after work, she tended to work longer hours, he’d go out with friends, they come home, they’d have dinner together, and she finally decided she really didn’t want to work full time anymore, so she cut back to part time in her head.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:22:52] The idea when she was going to come home, she was going to make this great dinner and her husband would come home and they’d have this lovely evening together. They never communicated that. So she’s home and making these wonderful meals. He does what he was doing before he his assumption was she really wanted to work less because she just wanted time to herself. So he still went out with the buddies after work, and he’d come home and couldn’t figure out why she had already eaten and why she was angry at him. And it just went on and on and they fought. And finally, they sat down and talked and realized how discrepant their expectations were and they worked it out, you know, so you know something. A day or two a week, he was with friends and she made plans with her friends. And then the other days they had meals together and they even found a course they liked to take. But it’s important to talk about things because if you go on assumptions, it can lead to, you know, really upset and hurt.


Paul Long: [00:23:55] So number five, intimacy and romance


Dorian Mintzer: [00:23:59] Another all of these are important what I keep saying. There’s another biggie and it’s another one that’s important. And again, you know, people think that, you know, somehow as we get older, we don’t think about intimacy and romance. Not true at all. I remember I think it was a hallmark book or card or something I saw many, many years ago that said Sex over 60 and you opened it. It was blank. Well, it’s not true. You know, if you think about it, we need touch from birth to death. We need intimacy, emotional intimacy and physical intimacy. And it is true our bodies change, desires change. But there are so many ways of being able to share and express love for partner. You know, if you’re suddenly single by divorce or widowhood, life does not end if you’re single by choice. You know, we all need and want relationships. And so it is important to recognize that some of what you’re able to do or what may interest you may change as you get older. Some people say that actually, you know, lovemaking and sexuality and sensuality as we get older is even better because there’s no inhibitions and there’s not so much pressure. So be open to the fact that, you know, we all need and want intimacy, emotional and physical or spiritual. You know, sensuality is spiritual. Our bodies and our minds are interconnected, so it’s not all downhill. There’s a whole chapter on that, and there are many books written about it. So it’s a really important area, I think, for people individually as well as in relationships to be thinking about.


Paul Long: [00:25:58] There actually was a recent survey study done and amazingly, the eight, the the general, the general age in which people said they had the most meaningful sex was like in their mid-sixties, which was just amazing. So the point here is to make sure to talk about it and get on the same plane or know what each other’s feelings are exactly.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:26:22] And you know, the heart. Another piece of the hard reality is that, you know, sometimes again, because of these myths about growing older, people get embarrassed about admitting that they’re still very sexual beans and creatures. And so sometimes people don’t want to bring up questions or issues to their doctors. And I’ve heard many stories where doctors don’t want to ask questions because they’re not always trained in talking about intimacy and sexuality.


Paul Long: [00:26:54] Ok, number six, relationships with family,


Dorian Mintzer: [00:26:58] And this can be a very complicated one. We have there’s so many demographic changes in our society. It can be your family, our family, long term marriages, people together but not married, blended families, so it can get complicated of relationships and obligations to family. I hear many people tell me they’re like eight grandparents still alive, you know, because of remarriages and all. And people can disagree on what are the roles and responsibilities, and I think they differ in cultures and ethnic. Oops! Some people really have a very strong family dictate that you take care of older parents and some don’t, and we live in a complicated world where people live all over the globe. And so if you have children can’t necessarily count them, they’re going to be there for you if you don’t have children. It’s even more important to build in what are the safety supports that are going to be there? Who can you count on? Who’s in your community? Who’s your, you know, extended family that maybe your extended family by creation? We all need to kind of build community and family. And there can be many disagreements in couples about what the obligations and responsibilities are, you know, of children that get divorced or, you know, jobs that you know, end and people have to come back home. How much do you support them? It’s where you know, the finances may play into it and you may disagree. And it’s important to really talk about this because it can create a lot of resentments. I’ve seen a whole continuum of how people deal with it, and it’s just, you know, again, there’s no simple answer, but an important conversation to have.


Paul Long: [00:29:04] Number seven Health and wellness


Dorian Mintzer: [00:29:07] Care I mentioned at the beginning, I think along with finances, health and wellness is so important. And hopefully we live long enough. The reality is that at some time or another, we may be caregivers for our partners or for siblings, or for our children, for our parents. And it becomes very important to control the parts you can so you want to try to stay as healthy as you can. One of the statistics that I do think is important is by the time you’re sixty five, it’s less about genes and more about lifestyle choices, attitude, taking care of yourself, exercising your body and brain spirituality. I know I mentioned this in a prior podcast, so it’s important to control the parts you can and to be as healthy as you can. But the reality is, as we get older and some of you already may have group illnesses, which doesn’t mean you can’t live full and productive


Paul Long: [00:30:12] Lives and have the discussion with with the person you’re in a relationship with about how the two of you are going to do it or what is that conversation?


Dorian Mintzer: [00:30:21] Yeah, the conversation can be around how we’re each going to be taking care of ourselves. It’s also, I think, helpful to have conversations around what if one or the other of us end up needing to be a caregiver for the other also, and some people like to put this off for later. But I think a really important conversation is about end of life issues and wishes, you know, the earlier you do it. And again, it can keep changing just like any portfolio, you want to keep changing it. But it’s so important to talk with your partner, with whoever significant in your life. So you know what each other wants and needs, how each other defines quality of life where things are. You know, I mean, life changes in a nanosecond. And what are the passwords? You know, we have digital worlds now. What are the passwords? Where are things? What are the account numbers? You know, it’s important to have these kind of conversations and even have listings and files for each other and having somebody else know where the material is. So if something happens to you and your partner, you know things can be dealt with.


Paul Long: [00:31:38] Ok? Number eight, choosing where and how to live.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:31:41] Conversation another, you know, complicated because people may have different viewpoints. It’s not unusual. We’ll retire. One person says, Oh, I want to go to Florida or I want to go to Arizona. I want to go somewhere where it’s warm. If you live in a place that’s cold, as I do in Boston and the other person says, no way, you know, I don’t want to be. I don’t like being in wherever it is Florida. I don’t want to just play golf all the time. I want to be near the children or grandchildren or my nieces and nephews. So it can be very difficult and important conversations to have, you know, a lot of variables to talk about. And I think it’s important to have these conversations. And if in fact, there’s a decision to move, you know, if you think ahead of time, it’s really helpful. I mean, there’s a lot of things online there, magazines. Out there of places to live when you retire, it’s really great if you can visit places and kind of give it a dry run. A short vacation gives you a taste of it, but it might not help, you know, kind of what it’s really like if you lived there. So if in fact, we were thinking about moving and finances allowed it and time allowed it? You know, if you could spend, you know, a few weeks a month in the place you’re thinking about and see if it makes sense for you. I’ve seen people pick up and move to like Costa Rica and think, Oh, this is going to be great. I loved it for vacations only to discover, you know, it was too hard to leave some of the people and things that they left behind and that they wanted to vacation but not live there. So important conversations to have and many resources to help you kind of explore think


Paul Long: [00:33:38] About number nine, social life, friends and community. What is what is that conversation? What do we need to talk about there?


Dorian Mintzer: [00:33:48] Ok? Even in the best of relationships, we need other people. It’s really important. The healthiest relationships are when you’re interdependent, not just totally dependent on each other, and but you may not see eye to eye. And so it is important to talk about maybe new friendships. This is a stereotype, but I hear many times that and I see often that it’s harder for men to make friendships with people outside of work. Women, it seems easier, either children. If you’ve had children, you know, often they’re contacts people, you know, many women talk about in the bathroom line or in the markets, you know, you start conversations and friendships can start. It’s harder for men. And part of the conversation that I think is most important is what is the expectation then if you’re not working and if you don’t have a network of friends, are you then expecting that your wife is going to be the social secretary or your partner or whomever is going to be the social secretary? Or that you resent that she or he has a network of friends and you don’t? So it becomes very important and to develop separate friendships as well as shared friendships. If you’re in a relationship and many areas to talk about, you know, sometimes people don’t like each other’s friends or don’t like each other’s family. And it becomes important to talk about, Well, how are we going to negotiate this? Know if it’s the holiday and you know, you don’t happen to like my family or my friends or you’re not going to come. How do we how do we negotiate this? So important conversations about that. But we all need friends and a social life. In addition to our partners, so that we’re not so super dependent on each other, because then if something happens to one or the other and you haven’t recognized that you can have other friendships, it’s so much harder on you. So it’s it’s really important, I think, to have these conversations OK.


Paul Long: [00:35:58] And last but not least, No. 10 purpose meaning and giving back what is that conversation about?


Dorian Mintzer: [00:36:07] So that conversation is, again, people may differ in how they feel about it. It ties into legacy. It ties into philanthropy, ties into spirituality. So it becomes important to both puzzle it out for yourself and talk with your partner about how are you going to build that into your life so that it’s part of your life? If one of you has more of it and the other doesn’t. It can create a real synchrony, and one partner can end up being more depressed and feeling more isolated. The other partner may be fully engaged and feeling of purpose and meaning. I see this happen a lot. So it’s important for each of you to talk about it and to talk about it, if possible, before to begin to develop some interests so that they’re sort of there and you’re already developing them before you retire. And if not to again, recognize maybe something’s missing and that you need to talk about it together and talk about it with other people. And again, lifelong learning programmes come into it, maybe doing that together, maybe doing it separately. But it’s an important conversation so that there’s a sense that each of you are able to feel that sense of well-being and feel connection and engagement and purpose and


Paul Long: [00:37:29] Meaning by having at least having those conversations. What’s what’s the dividend? What, what? What, what? Will that help with or where will that help get you?


Dorian Mintzer: [00:37:40] Ok? A couple of things, one, I also just want to mention in the giving back that it’s not unusual as we reach this stage of life that many people talk about wanting to give back kind of the shift from just doing to significance. And and that’s where maybe volunteering or mentoring or, you know, can fit into it. But the outcome of all of this and you know, some people talk about that. It’s it’s great to each read the chapter. Sometimes in cars, you know, when you’re driving the person who’s not driving leads to the other and you kind of talk about it. And just to mention in each chapter, there’s we don’t call it homework. We call it fun work. Some suggestions of questions to ask each others things to do and the dividend. As you say, Paul, the outcome is the reason what we like to call your individual vision and then a shared vision. So the idea is, you know, you’re going through these areas. And again, not all these, not all of the chapters painting. It’s a lot of books that you have to go through a chapter by chapter. You know, you pick and choose what is relevant to you at, you know, where you are in life. But then you you puzzle it out for yourself and you begin to create your vision of the kind of life that you’d like the parts that you can have some control over during these retirement transition years. And hopefully your partner or significant other or whoever’s important in your life does the same thing. And again, you come together and you know, it can be really willing to kind of look, where are there similarities? Where are their differences? You might want to put timelines on it.


Dorian Mintzer: [00:39:30] I mean, you’re not going to do everything all at once. So it might be, you know, in order to. I always like to say, you want to create this space for the me of the relationship and make it be a win win. So it’s not a win lose. So it may be, you know, this year we do my idea. And then maybe next year or in two years, we do your idea or we try to figure out, you know, with finances weren’t that you can do such and such with your friends. And I’ll do something with my friends and then we’ll do something together next year and then you’re not going to align around everything. And again, health issues, energy issues, ages really mean something to people. Do you want to try to figure out and create this vision and appreciate what you can do together and what you can do apart so that you can enjoy your life? And as often people do things separately, you’ve just joined at the hip. They actually have more to bring back to each other because then you can talk about what the experience was like. But it is the that is trying to create this kind of shared vision that again needs to be very flexible, needs to have timelines. You come back to it like a financial portfolio trying to create briefs and have as much of the kind of vital life that you want, but also taking into account that we’re all getting older and things will change. But, you know, embrace, embrace what you can do now.


Paul Long: [00:41:05] The book is the couple’s retirement puzzle. 10 must have conversations for creating an Amazing New Life Together, and it is a new life story. Thank you so much. I know that for those people who to who take this on to one degree or another, it could be a really life changing thing. Thank you so much. If you like this, there’s a lot more on YouTube. Also, there’s even more on new way forward. That’s new way fwt. There you can subscribe. You’ll get a free newsletter regularly, you’ll get special updates and you’ll get a free download to help you step by step. Get going on your new way forward.

Ten Conversations for a Great Relationship When You Get Older